Sean and Pat in - Stereotypes The Good Old Days

Two new retro-characters that I'm working on. There's a series of them I'm thinking about.

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EXT - A STREET - DAY

SEAN AND PAT ARE DIGGING A HOLE IN THE ROAD.

SEAN:
Ah Jaze Pat! Sure I'm dat pfokin' tursty dat I could drink all of de points of Guinness dat's over der in dat pub.

PAT:
Ah Jaze Sean! Sure I'm dat pfokin stupid mesulph dat I don't even know what de pfok yeer talkin' about. What de pfok is Guinness and what de pfok is a pub?

SEAN:
Man, sure 'tis a terrible ting to be Oirish in dis country right enough. We have to spend all of our time pretending to be tick as a docker's sangwidge. It's sort of a way of maintaining de equilibrium isn't it wouldn't you say?

PAT:
I would so now. And sure to tink dat I'm a no-bell proize winner in dem astrophysics too an all. But hi lookit! Isn't dat yer man Jim Davidson de comeejian?

SEAN:
Aye dat's him for sure. Boys-oh. But isn't he fierce terrible funny? Jaze I'd say dat he's de funniest man in de world.

PAT:
Sure he is an' all. Him and dat Bernard Manning lad- mind he hasn't been as funny lately. But sure them fellas is great gas right enough. De future o' comedy all right.

SEAN:
Do you tink so?

PAT:
Ah I do.

END:

I'm not sure what the joke is. Should I be laughing at the Irish colloquialisms and stereotypes. I'm guessing you are trying to subvert the idea of the Irish nation as being stupid isn't that a little old hat - and by that I mean the subversion. If this was produced and on television I think my honest reaction would be "Bejesuz! Isn't dat just a little bit fekn toired!" or something like that.

Bo.

Quote: Bohannon @ March 13, 2008, 9:50 PM

. I'm guessing you are trying to subvert the idea of the Irish nation as being stupid isn't that a little old hat - and by that I mean the subversion.
Bo.

View original

No in my opinion it's not. I'm suggesting that whether or not it's Irish, Chinese, West Indian, Gay or whatever, racial and indeed all "different" stereotypes are still perceived and more importantly, believed in, by many in Britain but often not spoken about for fear of incurring the wrath of the PC faction. This mind-set is alive and well in modern-day Britain no matter what right-on trendy types might say to the contrary.

If you had the misfortune to see Jim Davidson in that cooking show last year then you might understand what I mean.

The idea of subverting peoples' perceptions is indeed old and well worn but I would contend that it's just as valid nowadays as ever it was. Presumeably you would subscribe to the belief that satire as a form of writing is redundant and rather tired also as it's been around for rather a long time.

Quote: Blenkinsop @ March 13, 2008, 10:08 PM

Presumeably you would subscribe to the belief that satire as a form of writing is redundant and rather tired also as it's been around for rather a long time.

View original

Only if the targets of the satire are tired and stale and have been satired (if that's a verb) to death. If you're in the business of satire shouldn't you aim for virgin territory? Where it is easier to get surprises from an audience? Maybe not - just a thought.

Bo.

Quote: Bohannon @ March 13, 2008, 11:49 PM

Only if the targets of the satire are tired and stale and have been satired (if that's a verb) to death. If you're in the business of satire shouldn't you aim for virgin territory? Where it is easier to get surprises from an audience? Maybe not - just a thought.

Bo.

View original

Bo, I think if you take any satirical show or magazine, then invarialbly the targets are almost always the same. The government of the day, society in general or its many institutions. Hardly virgin territory. I enjoy for example a programme like the Now Show and I'd be prepared to bet that on tomorrow's show then Gordon Brown, Alastair Darling and indeed the government in general will get satirised. Just like they do almost very week.

I don't think there's much *new* or indeed *virgin* in comedy and if there is then it's a fairly rare thing.

Hmm it's not a bad idea, but not a very good one either. The irish are stereotypically stupid, and therefore find racist english comics funny. Thing is your left with saying nick nick and manning aren't funny, and the irish are stupid. Which is kinda not funny.

Viz did some pretty good twists on this idea with for example Euro-school. Where the joke was every one was a stereotype (nazi German, lazy Italian etc), except the fair playing English kid. the joke being we're so racist, and non self critical we make ourselves look ridiculous.

Quote: sootyj @ March 14, 2008, 12:18 AM

Hmm it's not a bad idea, but not a very good one either. The irish are stereotypically stupid, and therefore find racist english comics funny. Thing is your left with saying nick nick and manning aren't funny, and the irish are stupid. Which is kinda not funny.

View original

Sooty, I think the fault with this lies with the fact that it's unclear in how I've written it.

I'm not saying that the Irish are in fact stupid but find racist comics funny, quite the reverse. The characters in this are speaking the way they do for effect and to illustrate the (erroneous) idea that they are stupid.

The praise they have for Nick Nick and Manning is ironic but obviously how I've set it up is not...err, obvious . I think I need to make it clearer as it's confusing for readers.

Accepted, but as a writer you have to be open to misinterpretation.

Some times it's a good idea to pull out the "I was being ironic," stick and give it a good shake.

e.g. make the last line

Sean Psyche!

Yeah I think that my execution was too subtle here and whereas it's very clear to me what I meant - it's obviously not clear to the audience.

Rethink methinks

Fair does, I think I'm often misunderstood. So I often put in blindingly obvious line in, which may damage the joke a tad, but at least lets me feel i did the right thing.

Exept stage shows have a habit of editing them out, and leaving me looking the c**t.

The way it was written put me off found it hard to read so only got through the 1st couple of lines. Sorry