Churchill was indeed a pillock, from what I've read recently.
The worst thing I've heard about MLK though was that he cheated on his wife. Which is bugger all compared to Trump and the like.
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Quote: zooo @ 28th January 2018, 10:57 PMSo no, he has no skills as an orator.
Then you didn't watch his campaigning in the midwest, the man had them hanging on his every word, performances akin to Billy graham or Jesse Jackson if not MLK, it was feverish stuff. The man can clearly sway a large gathering, he won the presidency after all against huge odds did he not.
I saw him speak several times. Every time it was meandering, repetitive bollocks. Sentences that rambled on and said absolutely nothing.
People literally cheered after he said it was wrong that babies are allowed to be born after 9 months. Those idiots cheer anything because they're idiots.
He certainly has an ability to hoodwink said idiots into believing he's the messiah, I agree with you there. But that wasn't down to anything I would call genuine charisma. And he certainly has no skill as an orator. It's something else, but I'm not sure what to call it.
This quote comes close though.
Does it occur to you that the audience there were only present because they already had the mad idea he was some sort of saviour? Have to say, any of the Trump supporters I've seen interviewed on tv would have had a hard time rustling up a brain cell between them. And never forget, if you take individual votes, Clinton scored more than he did. He was NOT the choice of the majority of Americans.
Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 28th January 2018, 10:55 PMI've heard of this mythical 'blind hate' but you won't listen to any opinion that is not anti Trump.
To the point now where you are insulting other members.
It sounds to me as if, were you living in 1938, you'd have been miffed at anybody having the nerve to criticise Hitler. The world us more dangerous since Trump took power. Doesn't that concern you? I don't apologise for loathing the shit.
And the reason the USA doesn't have that voting system is because it's unrepresentative of huge swathes of the country between the heavily populated liberally inclined two coasts. If it was a straight vote count then the US would never have had a Republican president which isn't very democratic. Trump won by appealing to the Midwest.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 28th January 2018, 11:37 PMAnd the reason the USA doesn't have that voting system is because it's unrepresentative of huge swathes of the country between the heavily populated liberally inclined two coasts. If it was a straight vote count then the US would never have had a Republican president which isn't very democratic. Trump won by appealing to the Midwest.
And all the decent Americans are stuck with him. Is that fair? To be honest I think it's just about impossible to fix on a satisfactory voting system. I'd be tempted to vote for PR if given a choice but I've reservations about that too. For the Scottish parliament we have a system that combines first-past-the-post and PR. I think it works fairly well.
Quote: zooo @ 28th January 2018, 11:03 PMChurchill was indeed a pillock, from what I've read recently.
The worst thing I've heard about MLK though was that he cheated on his wife. Which is bugger all compared to Trump and the like.
? I'm not aware that Trump has killed or even harmed anyone and other than some overhyped laddish banter and accusations now pouring forth surprise surprise, no one has proved he has done anything illegal or harmful at all. It's all a bit hysterical around a brash mannered but effective public figure.
With PR you'd have had UKIP playing some part in the coalition government with their four million votes at the GE. Or a constant yo-yoing of weak coalition governments like many European countries have.
Quote: Briosaid @ 28th January 2018, 11:51 PMAnd all the decent Americans are stuck with him. Is that fair? To be honest I think it's just about impossible to fix on a satisfactory voting system. I'd be tempted to vote for PR if given a choice but I've reservations about that too. For the Scottish parliament we have a system that combines first-past-the-post and PR. I think it works fairly well.
[quote name="Alfred J Kipper" post="1185699" date="29th January
With PR you'd have had UKIP playing some part in the coalition government with their four million votes at the GE. Or a constant yo-yoing of weak coalition governments like many European countries have.[/quote]
That's one of the reasons I'm doubtful about it (te UKIP thing). However the combination system we have here works well as far as I'm concerned. The coalition we once had didn't yo-yo. It lasted the term.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 29th January 2018, 12:05 AM? I'm not aware that Trump has killed or even harmed anyone and other than some overhyped laddish banter and accusations now pouring forth surprise surprise, no one has proved he has done anything illegal or harmful at all. It's all a bit hysterical around a brash mannered but effective public figure.
Wait for the Mueller results. 
Yes it's as fair as democracy can be, in 3 more years they can vote him out. And I think it's only fair to assume that many decent folk did vote for him, or like Hilary you are insulting many millions of people not living in swanky villas on the coast or in big cities. That was one of the nails she banged in her own coffin.
Quote: Briosaid @ 28th January 2018, 11:29 PMThe world is more dangerous since Trump took power. Doesn't that concern you? I don't apologise for loathing the shit.
It may look it to some but again it hasn't been proved that it actually is, unlike it has for Bush and Blair.
Quote: zooo @ 28th January 2018, 11:19 PMHe certainly has an ability to hoodwink said idiots into believing he's the messiah, I agree with you there. But that wasn't down to anything I would call genuine charisma. And he certainly has no skill as an orator. It's something else, but I'm not sure what to call it.
This quote comes close though.
Missed this brilliant LBJ quote first time around. Very apt, for the tax dodging, draft dodging 'Crooked Kraut'.
Can i hear a feint chant...steadily growing louder...
Pay some tax, pay some tax, pay some tax, lock him up, send him back...
The LBJ quote is probably the most nonsensical thing I've ever heard in my life.
In my time, I've looked down on a great many people (most of them male, white and superficially Christian) and I'm not emptying my pockets for anybody. 
Quote: Definitely Tarby @ 26th May 2016, 9:29 PMI can only assume people think that because he's worth billions he has all the answers and will work wonders as president but I think they are in for a shock. Can you imagine Trump as US president and Boris Johnson as British PM. It's like a surreal comic strip.
Oh, Tarby.
We are buggered...
Quote: playfull @ 20th July 2019, 1:01 PMMissed this brilliant LBJ quote first time around.
Thanks for the reminder that he and his fellow Democrats were the driving force behind racism in this country.