There is no austerity. Government spending is only 0.2% lower than in 2009.
Why does comedy lean to the left? Page 4
In real terms, that's a significant fall. Prices have fallen by about 30% since then.
It would depend on what the spending was on anyway.
And that was the only bit you objected to...?
Quote: Chris Hallam @ 21st June 2017, 3:06 PMAnd that was the only bit you objected to...?
Certainly not! Quite the opposite, almost nothing we agree on.
Quote: Aaron @ 21st June 2017, 2:52 PMThere is no austerity.
That sentence has left me mesmerised. I had to re-read it a couple of time to make sure I wasn't seeing things.
I've never heard anyone deny austerity before, though I have heard politicians assert that it is something which must be endured, however uncomfortable it may be, so that we don't leave future generations with more debt. It's been a hot topic now for seven years. This week alone, the Times wrote of its conviction that "Britain needs more austerity, not less, if it's to flourish", while the Financial Times reports how the Chancellor himself, Phillip Hammond, has confirmed in a keynote speech that he won't be abandoning austerity anytime soon.
So is this all a product of my imagination? Am I imagining having to regularly buy groceries for my local food bank because there are so many people in my town who are unable to afford such food themselves? Maybe the brutal cuts in incapacity benefits which have forced the sick into work is all in my head too. Clearly, I've been suffering some quite vivid hallucinations.
Cuts are not fallacy: the money has simply ended up being spent elsewhere. It's that thing Labour love: redistribution.
As a whole, the state has made basically no cutbacks at all. We need to make actual savings, both relatively and in real terms.
How do you distinguish between cuts and cutbacks?
And how do you reconcile this with the Grenfell Tower disaster? Even the Prime Minister has apologised for it today, calling it, "a failure of the state, local and national, to help people when they needed it most".
Quote: Dave @ 21st June 2017, 5:59 PMHow do you distinguish between cuts and cutbacks?
It's quite easy.
Individual areas of state spending - for example, NHS wages - have had to either cut back or not increase.
Meanwhile, that money has been deployed elsewhere, so the total Government expenditure has stayed (almost) the same. There has been (effectively) no actual decrease in spending.
Quote: Dave @ 21st June 2017, 5:59 PMAnd how do you reconcile this with the Grenfell Tower disaster? Even the Prime Minister has apologised for it today, calling it, "a failure of the state, local and national, to help people when they needed it most".
She actually apologised for the response to the incident, which was palpably lacking. Everyone reacted in horror to the event and I suspect many were too shell-shocked to put into action various emergency plans properly.
As for the fire itself, how is a decades-long legacy of poor building materials, poor fire safety advice, and general complete failure to understand the potential disaster and its implications, anything to do with the last few years of austerity? It's just an absolutely f**king tragic chain of events and danger assessments that combined with perhaps the most horrendous outcome imaginable.
Quote: Aaron @ 21st June 2017, 6:09 PMIt's quite easy.
Individual areas of state spending - for example, NHS wages - have had to either cut back or not increase.
Meanwhile, that money has been deployed elsewhere, so the total Government expenditure has stayed (almost) the same. There has been (effectively) no actual decrease in spending.
She actually apologised for the response to the incident, which was palpably lacking. Everyone reacted in horror to the event and I suspect many were too shell-shocked to put into action various emergency plans properly.
As for the fire itself, how is a decades-long legacy of poor building materials, poor fire safety advice, and general complete failure to understand the potential disaster and its implications, anything to do with the last few years of austerity? It's just an absolutely f**king tragic chain of events and danger assessments that combined with perhaps the most horrendous outcome imaginable.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jun/21/austerity-finished-grenfell-tower-public-services
Ah, The Guardian. Okay, let's see what load of nonsense that shitrag's* columnists are spewing this time.
*No, I'll be nice and read it with an open mind.
Right. So ... what? The housing sector is a mess at all levels; something I've been moaning about for years. Not going to disagree with him there.
Councils cutting, changing, and making other rearrangements to provision of services: hardly new. Mistakes happen. I'm unlucky enough to live in a Labour town, and the council here is a-sodding-ppalling. Wasting money on ill-fated schemes left, right and centre that they end up reversing. So... I'm not really sure what your point is or what you think that article says, never mind proves, about either cuts or the Grenfell Tower incident?
Why is The Guardian a 'sh*rag'? Bearing in mind the opposition has The Daily Mail and The Sun, both of which have long since been extremely maligned? Also, you call their reportage nonsense and then agree with most of what they say.
Council's cutting is a symptom of austerity, surely? Austerity being something you now agree exists, even though you said it didn't. After all, the government willfully ignored all warnings to do something about it, presumably because they didn't want to spend the money.
As protesters call for May to resign, this may be another nail in the coffin in her Premiership - a woman who hasn't even won a leadership election, let alone a general election.
Perhaps you can tell me, in the polite interests of understanding another's opinion, why you are a Conservative? I'd genuinely be interested to know.
From where I'm sitting, they are ruthlessly and willfully causing pain to millions of the most vulnerable people in the country, including the sick, the lame, the poor and the young, all while cutting inheritance tax for the rich and accepting lower corporation tax from businesses like Amazon and Starbucks, plus selling arms to Saudis which are then fired at us, most recently in the Manchester and London attacks.
Quote: Dave @ 21st June 2017, 7:52 PMplus selling arms to Saudis which are then fired at us, most recently in the Manchester and London attacks.
Huh?
Quote: Dave @ 21st June 2017, 7:52 PMWhy is The Guardian a 'sh*rag'? Bearing in mind the opposition has The Daily Mail and The Sun, both of which have long since been extremely maligned? Also, you call their reportage nonsense and then agree with most of what they say.
Because of 90% of its output.
Quote: Dave @ 21st June 2017, 7:52 PMCouncil's cutting is a symptom of austerity, surely? Austerity being something you now agree exists, even though you said it didn't. After all, the government willfully ignored all warnings to do something about it, presumably because they didn't want to spend the money.
What warnings are you referring to? At very least: Governments. Labour were warned about this type of cladding in 1999, and seemingly did nothing for the next 11 years. Or maybe you're talking about local government? Either way, they're great examples of the state not listening to people.
Quote: Dave @ 21st June 2017, 7:52 PMPerhaps you can tell me, in the polite interests of understanding another's opinion, why you are a Conservative? I'd genuinely be interested to know.
In no small part, because of the Labour Party. Because I believe in both fiscal and personal responsibility, not recklessness. Hard work, not reliance on others. Personal freedoms, not buckling under the weight of the state. Not in blind ideological nationalisation. Not in unquestioning slavish praise of the state, the NHS, welfare, and all variations thereof. I do not believe in the one size fits all approach of statism. The state needs less power, and people need more. See previous question/answer for just one example as to why.
I'm a Conservative in the Whig/Liberal tradition. The Conservatives are the closest existing party to my politics. I cannot stand May.
Quote: Dave @ 21st June 2017, 7:52 PMFrom where I'm sitting, they are ruthlessly and willfully causing pain to millions of the most vulnerable people in the country, including the sick, the lame, the poor and the young
Wilfully? That's just crazy. Says more about your ingrained views. People are affected by the state when they are more reliant on the state. For good or ill. There have been many specific, targeted measures put in place to alleviate changes for the most vulnerable.
I would argue it is far more cruel of the previous Labour governments to have locked so many of those people into those various forms of state reliance.
Quote: Dave @ 21st June 2017, 7:52 PMall while cutting inheritance tax for the rich and accepting lower corporation tax from businesses like Amazon and Starbucks
Bloody good job too. Inheritance tax is abhorrent. It should be eliminated across the board.
Lower corporation taxes are to be praised also; although I'd agree it should be one rule for all, no exceptions for those big corporations.
Quote: Dave @ 21st June 2017, 7:52 PMselling arms to Saudis which are then fired at us, most recently in the Manchester and London attacks.
And the Earth is flat and Moon landings faked?
It's all getting a bit heavy around her.
It's quite simple.
Maggie 
Jeremy
Quote: Chris Hallam @ 21st June 2017, 1:17 PMWhat about the last three Tory governments?
`1. The UK brought to a strike bound shuddering halt by the Three Day Week.
2. The worst unemployment by far since the war. The Poll Tax. NHS and services wrecked. Dramatic surge in crime and homelessness. Sleaze. All ending in the biggest defeat by any party since 1945!
3. Austerity, more damage to our public services. The current coalition of chaos. And it's not over yet!
You forgot to mention the ERM...
Quote: Will Cam @ 21st June 2017, 9:59 PMIt's all getting a bit heavy around her.
It's quite simple.
Maggie
Jeremy
