I read the news today oh boy! Page 1,927

Quote: billwill @ 5th June 2017, 2:45 AM

I'm inclined towards letting them back into this country then arresting them and trying them for Treason. I think the death penalty still applies to Treason.

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Is it treason to go abroad to fight for another nation/cause? Perhaps if you could prove that they actively took up arms against UK forces, but I don't think that kind of evidence is easy to come by.

Quote: Kenneth @ 5th June 2017, 3:29 AM

Do you think that Western intervention in the Middle East (especially from the Soviet-Afghanistan War to the Gulf War to the Iraq invasion, ousting of Gadaffi, NATO strikes in Syria, etc) has contributed to the rise of militant Islam and terror attacks on the West? Or was Islamic fanaticism always going to carry out such attacks, regardless of Western involvement in Middle East?

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I'm old enough that I'll go with the latter. I remember attacks in the 70s and 80s; my friend was killed while on a UN peacekeeping mission almost 40 years ago. The goalposts are constantly moving and there will always be "justifications" for their atrocities, but the blame can't be put on the West. It only takes a quick glance at Muslim on Muslim violence to see the truth.

Surely better then to have left them carrying on, doing their unpleasantness against each other on their own turf, rather than wading in and selling arms to the bastards and taking sides in conflicts? Seems to make it easier to recruit jihadists by showing images of suffering and blaming it on evil neo-colonial Westerners.

Several BCG meets have been held at London Bridge, so I've got some great memories of the area. Borough Market, too, is probably one of my favourite places in London, so this was an attack which really hit home for me. Sad times.

Quote: Kenneth @ 5th June 2017, 6:07 AM

Surely better then to have left them carrying on, doing their unpleasantness against each other on their own turf

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Nobody would care if their ancient grudges were confined to their own homelands. It's their propensity for training people for attacks on the west that forces us to act. We'll continue to do so as long as the threat exists.

Quote: DaButt @ 5th June 2017, 12:00 PM

Nobody would care if their ancient grudges were confined to their own homelands. It's their propensity for training people for attacks on the west that forces us to act. We'll continue to do so as long as the threat exists.

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Yes, that worked pretty well with the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Have you read Black Flags: The Rise of ISIS by Joby Warrick? He tends to suggest that Rumsfeld screwed up with Iraq, allowing a small al-Qaeda offshoot to develop and thrive as ISIS.

How many times did Saddam actually launch attacks on the US?

Quote: Lazzard @ 4th June 2017, 10:42 AM

Stop all weapons research except for the 'instant drop stun gun'.
Two advantages -
1. The terrorists don't get the death they long for, but a lifetime in prison and all the fun & games that will involve.
2. Gives the authorities a chance to question them and get intel on the rest of their shit-heel mates.

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They have one, it's called a tazer, it's pretty unreliable in those emergency life or death situations, it takes careful aiming and may not work at all if the target is heavily clothed or padded often with stab proof vests which these butchers are, they plan everything. Other non lethal weapons are available but are not used for a reason - they either don't work or would kill at close range, such as a baton round, so why not make sure of the killing or disarming and use real metal bullets?

On points 1&2 I used to agree with this, but now I don't in light of the increasing number of terror acts. The cost alone of jailing hundreds or more terrorists then legally fighting their constant appeals would be crippling to the state and this is also what they want. If they've been stopped from waging physical war with us then waging financial war as they call it will satisfy their sick minds.

Liquidate them as Putin calls it, it really is the most sensible way. They have a habit of not talking or just lying when interrogated and know we can't torture them so nothing much is lost in intelligence gathering by killing them. Take a tip from the military and 'kill or be killed'. And why oh why were they pulled off operations after a couple of days, potentially allowing this latest butchery to happen? The pros should be out there permanently, allowing the cops to sort out other criminals. Morning btw or it was when I started.

Quote: Shandonbelle @ 4th June 2017, 5:17 PM

Then how come the majority of Muslim's condemn killing and want nothing to do with terrorism? They are in it for their own glory and because they are full of hate, nothing to do with obeying orders from above.

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The majority of British muslims may, or may at least say it publicly, but not sure at all if the majority of all muslims do. Research will be needed to prove this but I wouldn't put money on most muslims in the world, or certainly most male muslims condemning killing infidels who've blasphemed Allah or Mohammed.

Having a typically liberal western value set is not ideal against very illiberal anti western extremists. They are not like us, do not like us and wouldn't treat us anywhere near as softly or fairly as we treat them. We need to reject political correctness when dealing with those who either practise or promote killing us in the name of Islam whether they're deluded or not.

Quote: zooo @ 22nd June 2016, 5:47 PM

All of them except Rolf have always given me the creeps. Bill Cosby did too.

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Couldn't find a thread on Bill Cosby! I can't say I ever took to his comedy routine or shtick as some call it, it was way too American, unsubtle and too culture specific for my taste but now having watched him in these expose docs I have an odd new regard for him. No not a misogynistic one as what he's been accused of is deplorable, but his casual jokey manner in the face of the stinging backlash against him has somehow got my admiration. He may know his game is up but he's still having fun and definitely unPC banter with people, and that takes a bit of personality, whatever nastiness he's proved to have done. Purely as a comedian he's finally got my respect (if not as a man if he did do those things.)

He's a vile piece of human garbage.

But I still love watching the Cosby Show. I'm rewatching it all now, actually. I used to love it as a kid, and I'm not letting his actions ruin it for me. He was never one of my favourites in it anyway, although he is funnier in it than I remembered.

Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 7th June 2017, 1:47 PM

We need to reject political correctness when dealing with those who either practise or promote killing us in the name of Islam whether they're deluded or not.

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Very true, but who is too PC to say that these terrorists are Muslims? The whole bloody world is aware of what they are and what religion they identify themselves with, but we're also aware that their ideology is separate and deviates vastly from what 'normal' non violent Muslims believe, there's nothing PC about making that distinction.

Quote: Shandonbelle @ 7th June 2017, 5:09 PM

Very true, but who is too PC to say that these terrorists are Muslims? The whole bloody world is aware of what they are and what religion they identify themselves with, but we're also aware that their ideology is separate and deviates vastly from what 'normal' non violent Muslims believe, there's nothing PC about making that distinction.

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Politicians and media outlets often twist themselves into pretzels to avoid saying what is true: there are millions of Muslims who support suicide bombings and terror attacks in order to kill, subjugate or terrorize non-Muslims. President Obama famously referred to a gunman's attack on a Jewish store in Paris as a random attack, and the administration labeled the Fort Hood massacre as "workplace violence."

It beats me what they gain from denying the truth or the obvious and even worse, what that does to the fight against terrorism.

My point was supposed to be more that most British or westernised muslims are scorned by a great many indigenous muslims for not being anything like muslim enough. Our muslims are not typical of most native muslims especially from the Arabic countries which includes all of North Africa and some of east Africa, where this new wave of terrorist butcher is mainly coming from. So when our lot condemn the terrorists' attacks they will then be condemned ten to one from the Islamic nations for not backing their righteous jihad and so scorning Allah.

Or put another way, if Britain's moderate muslims were to suddenly be expelled to muslim countries do we really think they would continue speaking out against Islamist terrorism and dare to be as moderate in their views or lifestyle as they are here? I know what I think, they don't have the freedom to say or even think these kind of thoughts over there that we afford them here, and that is half the reason we are being terrorised by their nutters - they believe we are corrupting and westernising muslims which they won't stand for. And many of this hard core extremist lot actually live in Britain and Europe now, which is the most frightening thing.

Does it really make sense to stigmatize, discriminate against, deport etc. muslims who are not terrorists, or terrorist sympathizers, abhor terrorism, and would really just like us to let them worship how they please so long as they're not bothering anyone. I lived in a 90% muslim neighborhood literally right next door to a mosque for several years, and they were the most respectful, quiet, peaceful, and polite neighbors I've ever had. Even the ones who didn't speak a word of English were always remarkably kind to me.

There are nutters in every religion, or lack-of-religion, or ethnic group, or nation, or whatever. There will always be nutters. I'm a nutter (not a terrorist nutter though, rest assured).

Also, the US has been shit for more than 40 years. I am happy (well, not happy) to take the blame for my country fostering past and recent terrorist uprisings/attacks on the west. Even if they started it (which I don't think they did), we meddled, started wars, made it worse, and did a lot to promote the recent upsurge of extremism and terrorism (hell, we're fostering our own home grown extremism here at home. Seen any neonazis around lately? I have.). Islamic people as a whole do not hate the west, that's a ridiculous generalisation. Some of extremists do hate us, and a smaller subset of those would like to see harm done to us, but we've kind of brought it upon ourselves at this point. We've killed a hell of a lot more of their civilians than they've killed ours (speaking for the US, here, but worth taking into consideration in your current situation).

And don't tell me that makes me a terrorist sympathizer. Terrorism is clearly a horrible thing, and something needs to be done about it, but learn from America's mistakes. Don't follow Trump's lead...or Bush Jr's, or Bush Sr.'s and start thinking the answer is to go hunting them down on their own turf, and/or kick all muslims out of your country or start travel bans or encourage islamaphobia. I'm not sure what the solution to the problem is, but military intervention and new policy based in xenophobic thinking doesn't solve anything. Pretty sure it makes things measurably worse.

Quote: Davida @ 8th June 2017, 2:52 AM

I'm not sure what the solution to the problem is

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There's the rub.

Elsewhere, interesting to see The Sun still churning out this sort of scaremongering shit: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3748893/the-sun-says-vote-conservative-dont-chuck-britain-corbyn/ To the right of the article are some Headline links, such as "Boarding school teacher fired after being caught watching porn in class twice" -- right alongside The Sun's very own soft porn pics of various pseudo-celebrities with their tits out.