Why does comedy lean to the left? Page 2

Quote: Aaron @ 12th May 2017, 1:10 PM

A lot of it is self-fulfilling. Lefties hire lefties.

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Not really. Comedy often comes from conflict. Even Morecambe and Wise had elements of it. Poor old Des O'Connor . Mainstream politics has leant to the right for a long time, even under New Labour so it tends to be the polar opposite that is the normal in comedy, especially stand up. Croft and M and W were pretty politically neutral I reckon.
I think Till Death us do Part and Love thy Neighbour were more politically fuelled than the shows above but we're also balanced because that was part of the 'conflict'.

Quote: Aaron @ 12th May 2017, 6:40 PM

Complete bollocks.

The difference between right and left is the approach to solving problems, not that one side has a heart and the other doesn't. That's just the most tedious, lazy, and - ironically - unempathetic stereotype.

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Can you explain what you mean? What is a leftist approach to solving problems, and what is a right wing approach....in terms of comedy? Can you give me an example or two?

I don't notice much of a political bent in the comedy I watch (apart from panel shows, but I don't really keep up with panel shows lately anyway) but maybe I'm just oblivious to left-biased things as they don't stick out to me, being a lefty myself. Been on a Stewart Lee bender lately, and that's obviously super on-the-left, but in sitcoms and things is there a lot of left-leaningness creeping into it that just isn't apparent to me? Or are we talking about stand ups? I'm curious about your thoughts, Aaron (and any other righties), about left-leaning writing/content etc. in sitcoms as well as in stand up.

I don't think people on the left are all inclusive and empathetic and charitable and fair and rational and people on the right are all racist, and xenophobic and intolerant, and irrational and racist, and greedy, and uncaring, or whatever the stereotypes are. There are awful people and great people on either side of the divide, of course. There are a lot of things I don't understand about right wing politics (as I mostly get any news about the left through the twitter filter of left-leaning comics), and naturally it doesn't bother me that most stand ups (at least ones I like) who do happen to have any sort of obvious political leanings (which is not a large percentage of them, I think) are left-leaning. Stewart Lee's line in an episode of Comedy Vehicle comes to mind. He says something like "'So I went to a Stewart Lee show' 'Was it funny?' 'No but I agreed the f**k out of it'" and then said something about wanting to create a vast liberal consensus in the room that would inevitably dissolve on contact with the outside air.

Would I be repulsed by an outright right-wing stand up? Are there any? I'm kind of curious now. These are questions I don't know the answers to. Aaron? Anyone?

Let's do this poll! I have this awful tendency to assume everyone I interact with is on the left until I find obvious evidence to the contrary. I shouldn't assume. I live in a very left-leaning corner of my country though. It's just what I'm used to.

I think it's simply that the right are traditionally authority and comedy thrives on rebelliousness.

First of all, what is "right" and what is "left"? Was there much difference, for example, between Nazi Germany and the communist Soviet Union? Rather than two "wings", separated by a chasm, I see politics as more of a circle with so-called extreme right and so-called extreme left meeting together at the top.

Quote: Billy Bunter @ 29th May 2017, 11:05 AM

Was there much difference, for example, between Nazi Germany and the communist Soviet Union? Rather than two "wings", separated by a chasm, I see politics as more of a circle with so-called extreme right and so-called extreme left meeting together at the top.

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No, not an awful lot of difference in many respects. But that's not surprising, as they're both of the left. The term "far right", for some reason, has come to mean fascism. The Nazis were undoubtedly fascist, but there was nothing remotely right wing about them. Not out and out communism like the Soviet Union, but the National Socialists were definitely just that: socialists. They oversaw massive programmes of nationalisation; heavy state control; protectionism; a hard grip on the economy (and plenty of fantasy economics at that); huge domestic state spending; and much else. None of which, I hope you'll agree, sounds particularly right-wing.

Quote: Davida Grimes @ 29th May 2017, 3:09 AM

Can you explain what you mean? What is a leftist approach to solving problems, and what is a right wing approach....in terms of comedy? Can you give me an example or two?

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I wasn't really talking about comedy on that particular point; I can't think of much problem-solving like that in comedy. Comedy usually deals with people not solving problems, I think!

Some of this may get lost in translation with the wide gulf between UK and US society and politics, particularly the role of the (nation) state, but my favourite analogy is the proverb "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime".

The former represents a more left-wing approach to helping the less fortunate. Hand-outs, benefits, state aid, whatever you want to call it: doing things for people. The latter is the more right-wing approach: simply, helping people to help themselves.

Quote: Davida Grimes @ 29th May 2017, 3:09 AM

Would I be repulsed by an outright right-wing stand up? Are there any? I'm kind of curious now. These are questions I don't know the answers to. Aaron? Anyone?

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I would recommend Andrew Lawrence and Geoff Norcott. In fact, you'll have come into contact with Geoff already: he's a regular panel show writer; writes for Sarah Millican a lot; and is thought of highly by openly left contemporary comics like Katherine Ryan. There are others who I privately know to be on the right but don't make a deal about it, so I would feel uncomfortable mentioning them.

Andrew's stand-up comedy is very dark and misanthropic so might just entrench views of right-wingers as heartless and cold or what-have-you if that is not your taste in humour, but he's had a few Radio 4 series in recent years that are a bit more accessible and very funny, so well worth finding.

A friend of mine (who works in the industry) has a theory that just about every stand-up who doesn't comment on politics is centre/-right leaning. I'm not sure quite how true that might be, but I'm certain there are many others who are, for want of a better term, closeted about their political beliefs.

Quote: Davida Grimes @ 29th May 2017, 3:09 AM

I don't notice much of a political bent in the comedy I watch but maybe I'm just oblivious to left-biased things as they don't stick out to me, being a lefty myself. ... in sitcoms and things is there a lot of left-leaningness creeping into it that just isn't apparent to me?

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This is a good question, but hard to answer easily. Because so few sitcoms deal directly with politics like stand-up does, it's not always obvious. It's more about broader attitude and tone than an obvious partisan bias.

Quote: Aaron @ 29th May 2017, 1:55 PM

I wasn't really talking about comedy on that particular point; I can't think of much problem-solving like that in comedy. Comedy usually deals with people not solving problems, I think!

Some of this may get lost in translation with the wide gulf between UK and US society and politics, particularly the role of the (nation) state, but my favourite analogy is the proverb "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime".

The former represents a more left-wing approach to helping the less fortunate. Hand-outs, benefits, state aid, whatever you want to call it: doing things for people. The latter is the more right-wing approach: simply, helping people to help themselves.

I would recommend Andrew Lawrence and Geoff Norcott. In fact, you'll have come into contact with Geoff already: he's a regular panel show writer; writes for Sarah Millican a lot; and is thought of highly by openly left contemporary comics like Katherine Ryan. There are others who I privately know to be on the right but don't make a deal about it, so I would feel uncomfortable mentioning them.

Andrew's stand-up comedy is very dark and misanthropic so might just entrench views of right-wingers as heartless and cold or what-have-you if that is not your taste in humour, but he's had a few Radio 4 series in recent years that are a bit more accessible and very funny, so well worth finding.

A friend of mine (who works in the industry) has a theory that just about every stand-up who doesn't comment on politics is centre/-right leaning. I'm not sure quite how true that might be, but I'm certain there are many others who are, for want of a better term, closeted about their political beliefs.

This is a good question, but hard to answer easily. Because so few sitcoms deal directly with politics like stand-up does, it's not always obvious. It's more about broader attitude and tone than an obvious partisan bias.

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For the 'teach a man to fish thing' how does it work as far as making resources available to people to use to help themselves. It'd be tricky to learn to fish without having access to a fishing pole, would it not? So then it seems like handouts/aid etc. still need to come into play. I'm speaking from a place of ignorance here, but all I can seem to imagine in the 'helping people help themselves but without any hand outs or aid' is a pull-yourself-up-by-your-own-bootstraps situation, which seem like it couldn't work. In any case, we probably best not get into another one of our lengthy political debate/education sessions.

I will check out Andrew Lawrence and Geoff Norcott. I'll try to find the radio 4 stuff. And dark is great to me, misanthropic I can usually handle, but can get a bit weary...unless it's really funny, which it may well be! I'll certainly give them both a chance. Thank you for the suggestions.

Quote: Davida Grimes @ 29th May 2017, 4:53 PM

For the 'teach a man to fish thing' how does it work as far as making resources available to people to use to help themselves. It'd be tricky to learn to fish without having access to a fishing pole, would it not? So then it seems like handouts/aid etc. still need to come into play. I'm speaking from a place of ignorance here, but all I can seem to imagine in the 'helping people help themselves but without any hand outs or aid' is a pull-yourself-up-by-your-own-bootstraps situation, which seem like it couldn't work.

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I guess this is probably the difference between UK and US politics. It's not an all-or-nothing situation here, but a case of degrees. In Britain, only a very small section of people - purist libertarians - would even privately advocate, never mind publicly campaign for or try to put into practice, a system (or lack thereof!) with no state provision at all: no schools, no healthcare, no system of benefits or other welfare.

A much larger proportion of people broadly characterised as being on the right (because we're talking more societal policy here, which is on the vertical rather than horizontal axis) would see the role of the state as being to assist people when they are most in need, provide basics such as education and (at least some element of) healthcare, and generally establish the basic framework of society (e.g. a robust legal system and police to enforce it) for people to go about their lives, and to do so as they wish - within those legal boundaries etc.

Quote: Aaron @ 29th May 2017, 5:34 PM

I guess this is probably the difference between UK and US politics. It's not an all-or-nothing situation here, but a case of degrees. In Britain, only a very small section of people - purist libertarians - would even privately advocate, never mind publicly campaign for or try to put into practice, a system (or lack thereof!) with no state provision at all: no schools, no healthcare, no system of benefits or other welfare.

A much larger proportion of people broadly characterised as being on the right (because we're talking more societal policy here, which is on the vertical rather than horizontal axis) would see the role of the state as being to assist people when they are most in need, provide basics such as education and (at least some element of) healthcare, and generally establish the basic framework of society (e.g. a robust legal system and police to enforce it) for people to go about their lives, and to do so as they wish - within those legal boundaries etc.

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I suppose it's a matter of degree here as well. I don't think anyone but some very extreme anarchists or something want to go so far as getting rid of schools and police stations and hospitals and other basics. There's definitely a divide here regarding tax though, and allocating funds to help those in need. Some people on the right, I know, think no one should get any kind of hand-outs for anything, healthcare, education etc., people like like drug addicts, pregnant women, undocumented immigrants, mentally ill people, people and with handicaps (I'd like to hope that's not the majority view for people on the right (I'm talking about here in the US) and I'm guessing it isn't the majority view, but I can't really get a sense of what people's views really are from the media as everything gets so polarised and exaggerated, and I don't know a lot of people on the right personally), but I'm sure there are loads people on the right in the US who aren't opposed to something like universal health care (obviously healthcare here is very different to how it is in the UK. I thought we were headed in the right direction with Obamacare. Not perfect, but an improvement, in most cases. And now the future of healthcare is looking very grim indeed from my perspective). Of course it's a tricky matter (left and right aside) to, decide who exactly is in need, who to help most/first, what they need, and how to help them get what they need, and how to generate the resources necessary to help those in need (e.g. tax and such).

I agree that right-wing comedians probably don't mention it in their acts. It's the same as the 'shy Tory' phenomenon, in which Conservative voters don't mention their politics in fear of being ostracised. I hear that Theresa May does not even mention the name of her own party during this election, as it's considered to have negative connotations for many voters. As for the number of left-wing comedians, I think someone had it right earlier by saying that creativity involves empathy, which is something that right-wingers traditionally lack, as they tend to be more ruthless and hard-nosed by nature.

Because the right are not funny any more.................... geared more towards horror films.

I've written about this before... http://bit.ly/2sP3pZm and here http://bit.ly/2rziMkw

The main reasons:
1. Comedians come under the category of freethinking arty types. Artists, sculptors, poets, philosophers are nearly always left wing. Comedians are the same. Right wing people tend to be more conformist and are more likely to seek a more obvious route to wealth. Generally speaking, lefties sit around all day on beanbags reading Marx in the nude, while right wingers wear suits and bark "Buy oil! Sell missiles!" into their mobiles while kicking crying babies out of the way.
2. Villains are easier targets for satire. Who is funnier? Obama who was generally well-intentioned even if he disappointed on some fronts or Trump who is a malevolent egotistical paranoid tyrant with pubic hair on his head who contradicts himself virtually every other sentence?
3. The Tories are in power (just about). Despite this, I don't see an overwhelming bias either way in Private Eye or on most panel shows. I suspect most comics these days aren't very politically minded either way. Getting laughs is the priority.

It's obvious. Left wing people are wittier, cleverer and more creative.

Quote: Chris Hallam @ 20th June 2017, 4:10 PM

Generally speaking, lefties sit around all day on beanbags reading Marx in the nude, while right wingers wear suits and bark "Buy oil! Sell missiles!" into their mobiles while kicking crying babies out of the way.

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"The Nazis were undoubtedly fascist, but there was nothing remotely right wing about them"

Apart from their fanatical sense of nationalistic pride, extreme patriotism, racism, hatred for weak and poor or minority groups, hostility to trade unions and socialist groups and love of militarism you mean?