Comedy and Mental Health

I've been involved in the organisation of a Mental Health seminar at work and comedian Juliette Burton is appearing to discuss her experiences. It got me thinking, Stephen Fry has spoken publicly about his bipolar disorder; Paul Merton was in The Maudsley and Ruby Wax checked herself into The Priory. Past stars have experienced MH issues too, examples of which are Spike Milligan, Kenneth Williams and Tony Hancock, the latter two ended up committing suicide. Countless other comedians have sought solace in drink and drugs.

I must admit that I'm truly fascinated by the link. Does creativity always equal MH issues, or is it just a skewed way of viewing the world?

Quote: TheBlueNun @ 4th October 2015, 9:13 PM BST

I've been involved in the organisation of a Mental Health seminar at work and comedian Juliette Burton is appearing to discuss her experiences. It got me thinking, Stephen Fry has spoken publicly about his bipolar disorder; Paul Merton was in The Maudsley and Ruby Wax checked herself into The Priory. Past stars have experienced MH issues too, examples of which are Spike Milligan, Kenneth Williams and Tony Hancock, the latter two ended up committing suicide. Countless other comedians have sought solace in drink and drugs.

I must admit that I'm truly fascinated by the link. Does creativity always equal MH issues, or is it just a skewed way of viewing the world?

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It doesn't always equal mental health issues. I'm sure there have been more comedians without mental health issues than with. But there certainly have been a lot. It's not just us Brits either, Robin Williams, Richard Pryor, Lenny Bruce.

If there is a correlation between creativity and a mental health problem, that's kinda scary of what it takes to have rich ideas.

This would take some research to really figure out this pattern in human behaviour. I would think it seems that way that most successful people tend to have some sort of flaw; Kurt Cobain had great songs, but depression affected him. I don't think we should hold a strong belief about MH and creativity, because again, like what DougWonnacott is saying, there is uncertainty.

Quote: DougWonnacott @ 4th October 2015, 11:59 PM BST

It doesn't always equal mental health issues. I'm sure there have been more comedians without mental health issues than with. But there certainly have been a lot. It's not just us Brits either, Robin Williams, Richard Pryor, Lenny Bruce.

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Good point, I'd forgotten about the US-based comedians.

Quote: IceMuffins @ 5th October 2015, 3:37 AM BST

If there is a correlation between creativity and a mental health problem, that's kinda scary of what it takes to have rich ideas.

This would take some research to really figure out this pattern in human behaviour. I would think it seems that way that most successful people tend to have some sort of flaw; Kurt Cobain had great songs, but depression affected him. I don't think we should hold a strong belief about MH and creativity, because again, like what DougWonnacott is saying, there is uncertainty.

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Absolutely. I remember reading that Graham Greene had to write prodigiously to keep the dark thoughts away. Like you say though, it would take an awful lot of dedicated research to prove it.

Quote: TheBlueNun @ 4th October 2015, 9:13 PM BST

Does creativity always equal MH issues?

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I think, to an extent at least, this is a bit of a myth. The number of people who have mental health issues at some point in their life, diagnosed or otherwise, is very high, it's not exclusive to creative types.

I'm not sure if you could ever accurately test it. Who gets to decide who's creative? Creative "enough" to have MH? What people would own up, knowing there's a still a stigma?

Quote: Steev @ 5th October 2015, 4:56 PM BST

I'm not sure if you could ever accurately test it. Who gets to decide who's creative? Creative "enough" to have MH? What people would own up, knowing there's a still a stigma?

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I guess so, MH issues are a huge spectrum from stress up to being sectioned. I think that there's a scale for depression though as I recall completing one after I'd had my son (not immediately after, but you get my point).

There you go, the Harrison one: http://healthnet.umassmed.edu/mhealth/HAMD.pdf

As for being creative 'enough' I reckon that there's a RADA scale out there, or if there isn't, there blooming well should be!

I bet almost everyone has a mental health problem if you count things like social anxiety or phobias. And almost everyone probably thinks of themselves as creative.

You would definitely need scales!

Quote: zooo @ 5th October 2015, 5:49 PM BST

I bet almost everyone has a mental health problem if you count things like social anxiety or phobias. And almost everyone probably thinks of themselves as creative.

You would definitely need scales!

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Absolutely, although not my bathroom scales: man they lie. I only weigh eight stone and two pounds.

The often quoted statistic is "one in four people will experience a mental health problem at any point in their life" (where mental health problem is a quite broad definition). So, it wouldn't be surprising to see a lot of comedians who also have mental health problems.

There's a scientific american article that's relevant. (A websearch for "The Real Link Between Creativity and Mental Illness", by Scott Barry Kaufman, from 2003, should return it) That article mentions that researchers (Simon Kyaga) found that the only mental illness that was over represented in creative people was bi-polar disorder.

it is interesting.

Quote: DanBC @ 5th October 2015, 8:35 PM BST

The often quoted statistic is "one in four people will experience a mental health problem at any point in their life" (where mental health problem is a quite broad definition). So, it wouldn't be surprising to see a lot of comedians who also have mental health problems.

There's a scientific american article that's relevant. (A websearch for "The Real Link Between Creativity and Mental Illness", by Scott Barry Kaufman, from 2003, should return it) That article mentions that researchers (Simon Kyaga) found that the only mental illness that was over represented in creative people was bi-polar disorder.

it is interesting.

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That is indeed fascinating. I guess that the highs and lows which underpin bipolar could mimic a writer/performer's purple patch?

Plenty of articles on the subject out there.

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jun/08/new-study-claims-to-find-genetic-link-between-creativity-and-mental-illness

https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=correlation+between+creativity+and+mental+illness&hl=en

As for comedians, it generally takes a certain leap of the mind to make the abstract connections between different objects/topics in order to find comedy.

Quote: Aaron @ 6th October 2015, 9:16 PM BST

Plenty of articles on the subject out there.

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jun/08/new-study-claims-to-find-genetic-link-between-creativity-and-mental-illness

https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=correlation+between+creativity+and+mental+illness&hl=en

As for comedians, it generally takes a certain leap of the mind to make the abstract connections between different objects/topics in order to find comedy.

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You're right; my Asperger's makes my brain jump about in a really weird way and make the strangest connections. The seminar's tomorrow afternoon and I reckon that it's going to be absolutely fascinating.

Quote: TheBlueNun @ 4th October 2015, 9:13 PM BST

I've been involved in the organisation of a Mental Health seminar at work and comedian Juliette Burton is appearing to discuss her experiences. It got me thinking, Stephen Fry has spoken publicly about his bipolar disorder; Paul Merton was in The Maudsley and Ruby Wax checked herself into The Priory. Past stars have experienced MH issues too, examples of which are Spike Milligan, Kenneth Williams and Tony Hancock, the latter two ended up committing suicide. Countless other comedians have sought solace in drink and drugs.

I must admit that I'm truly fascinated by the link. Does creativity always equal MH issues, or is it just a skewed way of viewing the world?

View original

This is a significant thread for which thanks.

Society's norms change from decade to decade. The gap between an individual and an ability to accept those norms is essentially where ill health resides. For many, there is a big gap in the first place and it gets wider.

I don't think that adaptation is the answer because it is expecting too much. Far better, I think, to encourage an individual to regard most of society as basically unwell to the point of mad - which isn't difficult given the evidence - and to slot in to people or small groups of people who make some sort of sense. The problem is that society itself insists that it is ultra well - politics, economics, psychology, media - and that can be an overwhelming sort of power for people just trying to get by. But it is the system that is always in denial.

Cheers!

Footnote - Comedy works because it is an oblique or distorted view on all of the above so it can be a shield. I will give you just one example of what I am talking about here. I've spoken to two taxi drivers recently. Both were Kurds and one had been studying linguistics in Bangor. Society rates this sort of thing very highly. I'm sorry but there is no way on earth that I could ever have left my family and friends and gone and worked in Kurdistan or even Kettering for the long haul. But that does mean having to make sacrifices too sometimes.

Quote: A Horseradish @ 6th October 2015, 9:52 PM BST

This is a significant thread for which thanks.

Society's norms change from decade to decade. The gap between an individual and an ability to accept those norms is essentially where ill health resides. For many, there is a big gap in the first place and it gets wider.

I don't think that adaptation is the answer because it is expecting too much. Far better, I think, to encourage an individual to regard most of society as basically unwell to the point of mad - which isn't difficult given the evidence - and to slot in to people or small groups of people who make some sort of sense. The problem is that society itself insists that it is ultra well - politics, economics, psychology, media - and that can be an overwhelming sort of power for people just trying to get by. But it is the system that is always in denial.

Cheers!

Footnote - Comedy works because it is an oblique or distorted view on all of the above so it can be a shield. I will give you just one example of what I am talking about here. I've spoken to two taxi drivers recently. Both were Kurds and one had been studying linguistics in Bangor. Society rates this sort of thing very highly. I'm sorry but there is no way on earth that I could ever have left my family and friends and gone and worked in Kurdistan or even Kettering for the long haul. But that does mean having to make sacrifices too sometimes.

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You make some poignant points. I have always found throughout my life that 'fitting in' seemed the most important element. Society tends to cast out the misfits somewhat and as you correctly state, 'that's where madness lies'. I guess that deciding to step away from the norm is quite empowering to many.