I'm sure Obama must be English really, he's so sensible about guns. Shame the president himself has bugger all power to change anything. 
I read the news today oh boy! Page 1,771
Quote: zooo @ 2nd October 2015, 11:15 AM BSTI'm sure Obama must be English really....
Well, a lot of those gun-toting good ol' boys are pretty damn sure he aint americun....
Quote: Nogget @ 2nd October 2015, 8:52 AM BSTAs another mass shooting at a US college hits the news
This is actually the first since October of last year, according to an article that I read yesterday.
Quote: Nogget @ 2nd October 2015, 8:52 AM BST"3521 Americans have been killed by terrorism since 1970. 9940 Americans have been killed by guns in 2015 alone."
But I'm wary of figures like this, and expect there might be more context to take into account. Is there?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-02/gun-laws-chart-barack-obama/6822342
There are many misleading items in that story:
"We spend over $1 trillion and pass countless laws and devote entire agencies to preventing terrorist attacks on our soil -- and rightfully so -- and yet we have a Congress that explicitly blocks us from even collecting data on how we could potentially reduce gun deaths. How can that be?"
Because the government can't take away everyone's guns until they know where they are, right Mr. President? (As it stands, every new gun purchase already requires an FBI background check.)
"So the notion that gun violence is somehow different, that our freedom and our Constitution prohibits any modest regulation of how we use a deadly weapon ... doesn't make sense."
We already have extensive regulation of firearms, Mr. President -- and you know it. Not the least of which is the death penalty for murder, but if that doesn't stop someone then what makes you think that additional laws will magically stop murders?
"Figures from the Mass Shooting Tracker project suggest there have been 294 mass shootings in the US this year, killing 378 people."
So the average mass shooting kills a little more than one person? Doesn't exactly sound like we're awash in massacres, does it? And take a look at the website that's linked and you'll find that only about 15% of them have an identified shooter (some of which are terrorists, by the way) so it's clear that the vast majority of mass shootings are actually drive-by shootings and gang warfare. But why does the president only speak out when there's a shooting like took place yesterday? America's gun deaths are the result of gangs, drug dealers and street-level crime, all of which are committed by criminals illegally carrying weapons. But why doesn't the president use his pulpit to decry such street violence, especially when his hometown of Chicago and his new home in Washington are two of the worst-hit cities? Why focus on the NRA?
"What's [also] become routine of course is the response of those who oppose any kind of commonsense gun legislation," Mr Obama said.
Ah, the old "common sense" legislation quip. Anyone with half a brain understands that it's politicalspeak for "Do not dare to question what I am saying, or you're an idiot."
"Right now, I can imagine the press releases being cranked out. 'We need more guns', they'll argue. 'Fewer gun safety laws'.
First of all, let's remember that those words were uttered by a man whose entire family is protected 24/7 by multiple armed security personnel now and for the rest of his life.
The Oregon college had a single security guard and he was unarmed. The shooter was killed by armed officers, so, yes, more guns were needed. As for people saying that we need fewer gun safety laws, that's patently ridiculous. Nobody wants fewer gun safety laws. But we also don't want laws that don't do a thing to reduce gun violence, but do negatively impact law-abiding gun owners.
"We know that other countries -- in response to one mass shooting -- have been able to craft laws that almost eliminate mass shootings -- friends of ours, allies of ours, Great Britain, Australia, countries like ours," Mr Obama said.
Yes, they responded by essentially disarming the entire population. Ok, Mr. President, please explain your plan to disarm America -- and that includes the millions of people who already possess guns illegally. Will it be a voluntary turn-in program, or will you have to raid our homes? And let's make sure it's all legal under the Constitution, ok?
Quote: Lazzard @ 2nd October 2015, 10:30 AM BSTAnd heres' a handy primer for when the gun-lovers start defending themselves.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/4-pro-gun-arguments-were-sick-of-hearing-20151001
Ridiculous article.
But to really rack up those mind-blowing death counts - to make sure that many lives are destroyed and families ruined in the space of five or 10 minutes - you need a gun.
Or a bomb. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing
Or poison. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_subway_sarin_attack
Or a knife. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanping_school_massacre
Or a tractor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Hebei_tractor_rampage
Or an airplane. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525
Etc.
Quote: Hercules Grytpype Thynne @ 2nd October 2015, 10:40 AM BSTThe situation will never be resolved as long as the NRA is as strong as it is,
How many gun murderers are members of the NRA?
Quote: zooo @ 2nd October 2015, 11:15 AM BSTI'm sure Obama must be English really
He's not, but yesterday's shooter was. 
Quote: DaButt @ 2nd October 2015, 3:28 PM BSTHe's not, but yesterday's shooter was.
Ha! Really?
Although note he had to go to America to do it.
This is cool.
I would LOVE it if we never heard the name of the murderer. Genuinely think it would make a difference if they got f**k all attention.
Quote: zooo @ 2nd October 2015, 3:52 PM BSTI would LOVE it if we never heard the name of the murderer. Genuinely think it would make a difference if they got f**k all attention.
Absolutely. It would be the most effective measure we could take against these psychos.
This quote from yesterday's shooter confirms my belief that the only way to curb these mass shootings is to take away what they crave most: publicity and notoriety:
'On an interesting note, I have noticed that so many people like him are all alone and unknown, yet when they spill a little blood, the whole world knows who they are. A man who was known by no one, is now known by everyone,' wrote Harper-Mercer of Flanagan.
'His face splashed across every screen, his name across the lips of every person on the planet, all in the course of one day. Seems the more people you kill, the more you're in the limelight.'
I hope we have psychiatrists and psychologists interviewing the rare surviving perpetrators of crimes like this, because I'd love to figure out a way to get under their skin. Maybe if we put their pictures on the bottom of public toilets after they die they'll decide that anonymity is preferable to notoriety.
Quote: DaButt @ 2nd October 2015, 3:28 PM BSTHow many gun murderers are members of the NRA?
I don't know, you tell me; but the point I was trying to make was that nobody from Obama downwards is going to make any difference to your laws as long as the NRA are as strong as they are.
We have had similar situations here in the UK where perfectly legit gun/shotgun holders have one day flipped and used those legal weapons to kill somebody.
There are no answers as far as I can see.
Oh no. I couldn't read that argument. Obviously there are too many guns in America.
Maybe we could do the same. That would get our population down.
Quote: Hercules Grytpype Thynne @ 2nd October 2015, 5:00 PM BSTI don't know, you tell me; but the point I was trying to make was that nobody from Obama downwards is going to make any difference to your laws as long as the NRA are as strong as they are.
A great deal of changes have been made to our gun laws in recent history and more changes are proposed almost daily. For example, I can walk into the local sporting goods store and buy a 30-round magazine for my rifle for a few bucks. It's a completely harmless device consisting of nothing more than a piece of plastic and a metal spring, but if I were to bring it to California or several other states I would be arrested and charged with a felony. If convicted, I would lose my right to vote along with a possible jail sentence. For a piece of plastic!
The NRA is strong because millions of law-abiding Americans donate to them in order to prevent the government from infringing upon our constitutionally protected right to bear arms. Many of our leaders are eager to take away our guns, while all the while they and their families are protected 24/7 by armed guards. But hey, laws are for the little people.
Quote: Hercules Grytpype Thynne @ 2nd October 2015, 5:00 PM BSTWe have had similar situations here in the UK where perfectly legit gun/shotgun holders have one day flipped and used those legal weapons to kill somebody.
Texas keeps a close eye on the 800,000+ citizens who possess concealed handgun licenses. Guess what, they are far more law-abiding than the average person; last year they committed 3 murders. So in other words, a Texan with a pistol in his pocket is 60% less likely to murder someone than the average citizen of the UK.
Quote: Hercules Grytpype Thynne @ 2nd October 2015, 5:00 PM BSTThere are no answers as far as I can see.
You're correct. There's no way to disarm (both law-abiding and criminal) Americans without searching them on the street and ransacking their homes. Think of what a shit show that would be. You'd most likely see law enforcement officers and military troops actively refusing to allow such measures to be taken.
How do places like the White House, airports, military installations and other sensitive facilities protect themselves against armed attackers? They use metal detectors, hardened entrances, barriers and, most of all, numerous armed guards. It's really all we can do and it'll never be foolproof.
Most of all, we need to quit giving these psychos the attention and publicity that they crave.
Quote: Chappers @ 2nd October 2015, 5:31 PM BSTObviously there are too many guns in America.
The number of guns in this country have doubled over the last decade or so, and legalized concealed carry was almost unheard of until recently, but our murder rate has been in decline the entire time. 
So, if there are good gun controls in place, how did this lunatic have possession of 14?
Why aren't people in the US asking them selves why this is only happening in the US? It happens OCCASIONALLY elsewhere, but regularly in US.
Really we talk about Russia being a problem but the USA are so full of themselves. They are so determined to bare arms that you'd think they all worked in hospitals.
Yeah nice hit on that Afghan hospital dudes
USA!!
More common sense for the gun-lovers to poo-poo....
http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-simple-truth-about-gun-control
Quote: Lazzard @ 4th October 2015, 4:19 PM BSTMore common sense for the gun-lovers to poo-poo....
http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-simple-truth-about-gun-control
Yeah, that article isn't worth the electrons it was written with.
I've still not heard a workable plan for removing the millions of illegal guns carried illegally by criminals. Any suggestions? As I've said, bonus points if it's legal under the constitution.
How about - Make them illegal to own from tomorrow.
Hand in your guns and ammo legal or illegal.
Shut gun and ammo factories and eventually the bad guys will run out
It will get better every day as they run out of bullets.
Quote: DaButt @ 4th October 2015, 5:02 PM BSTYeah, that article isn't worth the electrons it was written with.
I've still not heard a workable plan for removing the millions of illegal guns carried illegally by criminals. Any suggestions? As I've said, bonus points if it's legal under the constitution.
There've been almost 12,000 ammendments to the constitution since it was created.
As for gun control, Australia did it in about 6 months and they had comparable levels of gun ownership.
But first of all you need to deal with a bizarre cultural attachment.
I mean like I've said before if I want the chemicals to make Sarin, or Uranium or just plain old TNT for mining. I need to get a license and prove I'm a responsible person with a good cause.
As it is in the last 3 gun massacres the shooters were engaged relatively quickly by armed people. Didn't seem to make much of a difference.