New Big Bang Theory Page 3

Caught the latest episode on E4 this evening. (series 8, episode 15)
It seemed a bit ragged, but came together in the final scene in what was clearly a heartfelt tribute to the late actress who played Howard's mother, Mrs Wolowitz.

The entire episode feels a bit haphazard. Unusually bitty. The tone is somehow wrong.
Perhaps that is quite a testament of its own.

With her passing Carol Ann Susi seems to have so upset the crew, the usually slick, effortless progress of the smoothest show on the planet came somewhat unstuck.
Seems they're human after all.

I enjoyed it and it was a nice tribute.

Quote: Hercules Grytpype Thynne @ 16th April 2015, 11:05 PM BST

I enjoyed it and it was a nice tribute.

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Oh, they're always enjoyable. That's a given.
But to me they are a byword for professionalism and always being completely on song. This time one just sensed something was out of kilter.
The script changes will no doubt have been short notice and everyone will have been out of sorts.
The moment it all came together was in the last scene. Not merely did they manage to tie it all up. But you understood.

Just caught the latest episode on E4 this evening. (8/16)
Better than last episode, as less bitty.
Penny and Sheldon together are always good box office as they have a unique chemistry.
Few can do so much by doing so little.
That said, some lines by Penny and Amy didn't quite feel right. Their comebacks on occasion being too harsh and not quite in-keeping with the characters.
Some new writers contributing, mebbe.
Clearly Howard and Bernadette were missing at the zombie-quiz-thing and Raj's girlfriend still doesn't really fit.
But as a whole it still cruises along with the effortless grace of a Rolls-Royce, putting everything on this side of the pond in the shade.

Quote: Gussie Fink Nottle @ 24th April 2015, 10:23 PM BST

But as a whole it still cruises along with the effortless grace of a Rolls-Royce, putting everything on this side of the pond in the shade.

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Of all the American shows to rank higher than British output you opt for BBT?!

Quote: Vince Ives @ 1st May 2015, 2:03 PM BST

Of all the American shows to rank higher than British output you opt for BBT?!

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On current output, yes. By miles.

The work rate and hit rate here are way superior.

It is superbly put together and stands head and shoulders above everything over here right now.

Of course it is thinning. After two hundred or so episodes is that surprise?

But I would challenge anyone to show me anything recently put out in the UK which can compete with, say, the first five or six series of this outfit.

Even as they are winding down they are still putting out occasional classic stuff, though clearly their hit rate is diminishing.

But their standard remains high. To my mind, because they know what they're doing.

My point wasn't 'there are British shows that are better', it was 'there are literally dozens of American sitcoms that have existed in the time BBT has been on the air that are infinitely better'.

Quote: Vince Ives @ 1st May 2015, 9:31 PM BST

My point wasn't 'there are British shows that are better', it was 'there are literally dozens of American sitcoms that have existed in the time BBT has been on the air that are infinitely better'.

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Such as?

TBBT is currently deemed one of the biggest global TV shows on air per se.
So as for sheer audience pulling power it seems to have dwarfed anything going.
Clearly folks seem to like it.

Sure, that alone doesn't make a critical success.
But generally critics have been fairly warm about it.

But I'm interested to hear your view.
Two and a half men? How I met your mother? Mom? Rules of Engagement? Dads? Two broke girls? Melissa and Joey?

Which is the contemporary US sitcom which trounces TBBT?

Veep.

Quote: Gussie Fink Nottle @ 1st May 2015, 10:57 PM BST

Such as?
Which is the contemporary US sitcom which trounces TBBT?

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If we're going down the 'if something's popular then it must be good!' route then I'm already bowing out, but in any case:
Community, Arrested Development, Enlisted, Party Down, Parks & Recreation, Eastbound & Down, Review, Broad City, It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia, 30 Rock, The Office, Veep, Louie, Archer, New Girl, Silicon Valley, Bob's Burgers, Last Man On Earth, Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, Workaholics, Rick & Morty, Happy Endings, Michael & Michael Have Issues, Better Off Ted, Childrens Hospital, Curb Your Enthusiasm, Brooklyn Nine Nine, Maron, Modern Family, The League...

I'll give you How I Met Your Mother too, which is exactly the same kind of show as BBT. It's wallpaper, it's background noise, it's a nice comforting 21 minutes that you'll get the same amount of value from whether you give it your full attention or not. I get why people watch it, I just couldn't ever imagine holding it up as a great example of the genre.

Quote: Vince Ives @ 1st May 2015, 11:40 PM BST

If we're going down the 'if something's popular then it must be good!' route then I'm already bowing out, but in any case:
Community, Arrested Development, Enlisted, Party Down, Parks & Recreation, Eastbound & Down, Review, Broad City, It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia, 30 Rock, The Office, Veep, Louie, Archer, New Girl, Silicon Valley, Bob's Burgers, Last Man On Earth, Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, Workaholics, Rick & Morty, Happy Endings, Michael & Michael Have Issues, Better Off Ted, Childrens Hospital, Curb Your Enthusiasm, Brooklyn Nine Nine, Maron, Modern Family, The League...

I'll give you How I Met Your Mother too, which is exactly the same kind of show as BBT. It's wallpaper, it's background noise, it's a nice comforting 21 minutes that you'll get the same amount of value from whether you give it your full attention or not. I get why people watch it, I just couldn't ever imagine holding it up as a great example of the genre.

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Hmm. Why does the word 'cool' spring to mind here?

Well, regarding the popularity. I did qualify that remark. But it's a point worth making, as popularity must mean something.
And I feel in this case it does.

Now first off, much of your list I have not seen. I'm a freeview man.

But 'New Girl'? 'Bob's Burgers'? 'Brooklyn Nine Nine'?
These are way superior to TBBT? Seriously?

I suspect you're suggesting your listed programmes are not as successful as TBBT because the audiences are not sophisticated enough to appreciate their value?
Is that the line?

Quite a few people on here know what I think about 'The Office'. I share it willingly. I've not seen the US version. But again, I can imagine it.

I'm not sure about timing, but I'm doubtful 'Arrested Development' and 'Curb your Enthusiasm' were actually around during TBBT.
That said, I found them way overrated. (Go on, shoot me.) But they sure enjoyed the endorsement of the 'cool' crowd.

As for 'How I met your mother'; it was a big vehicle. But it never was the equal of TBBT. For all its trying it never succeeded in achieving decent pathos.
One or two of the main characters were desperately flawed.
The only decent comedic character was Barney Stinson which invariably got overused as the laughs depended on him.
Overall, it was just trying too hard to be 'Friends'.
But I'd sooner watch nothing else than 'How I met your mother' for life, than invest a single minute more in 'The Office'.

At it's heart I think your objection to 'How I met your mother' and TBBT is that they are aimed at the mainstream. They do not pretend at exclusivity, seeking instead to entertain as many as possible.
It is easy to deride such efforts as common and unsophisticated - or 'wallpaper' as you put it, because they are not the exclusive domain of the literati.

But that is to suggest that the mainstream is easy, that it is harder, more demanding to entertain the more sophisticated.

I hold that it is actually the polar opposite. It is precisely those who with wit and cleverness manage to win the mainstream who are in fact the geniuses.
Not least because they tend to be sophisticates who do not merely preach to their own crowd.
In short: you can be sophisticated AND accessible. But it is the hardest craft of all.

Of course TBBT is formulaic. Of course it is assembled.
But then so is every sitcom, no matter what the claim.

TBBT sits right in the middle of the mainstream and popular culture.
It contains three superb comic actors within a very decent ensemble.
Most of all its strength is well judged pathos, great variety of humour, tremendous pace, and an ability to indulge in wit and cleverness without excluding a great many from its audience.

It is the daddy.

Quote: Gussie Fink Nottle @ 2nd May 2015, 1:08 AM BST

But it's a point worth making, as popularity must mean something.

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There are three markers of value: popularity, which of course can actually make a show less valuable to the Cool Brigade (I try to only be a part-time member myself); critical acclaim, which changes all the time, and why should we listen to these critics anyway?; and influence.

Influence and popularity are the factors which can best be measured objectively.

Has someone caught George Roper disease? Not sure why TBBT needed a new thread myself. The other one dealt with new series very well.

I don't like the act of running a sitcom into the earth's core the way that lot do. Having said that I think it got to 100 eps without tiring too much. Probably because of the intensive filming method over a very short period and the fact the episodes are only 21 mins long.

But to keep banging out the same prog year after year is like being told the same joke again and again, or being run over by the same bus. The speed at which they are made and the intensity of the broadcast schedule is a huge problem for me. It means quite soon after discovering a good new sitcom you are choked to death with it and can't bear it anymore.

I will never agree with the American method. Fawlty Towers' 12 gems will forever outshine any and all US sitcoms. Fact.

Quote: Nogget @ 2nd May 2015, 7:36 AM BST

There are three markers of value: popularity, which of course can actually make a show less valuable to the Cool Brigade (I try to only be a part-time member myself); critical acclaim, which changes all the time, and why should we listen to these critics anyway?; and influence.

Influence and popularity are the factors which can best be measured objectively.

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See where you're coming from here.
But influence is a tricky measure.

That which exerts influence is new in some way.
In turn that may lead one to expect that every comedy somehow reinvents the wheel. The end result of this might be for everyone to seek to create the latest 'Mighty Boosh'. I'm not sure I would welcome that.

But then, must every sitcom create 'the new'?
Did 'Only fools and horses'? Did 'Porridge'?
Or is it enough to have learned from other sitcoms? To be of the current standard, so to speak?

I agree with you that those sitcoms which leave a legacy of sorts are some of the greatest in the pantheon. But I'm not sure how useful the measure is.

But then there is also the issue of learning from influence.
As for relevant influence here I would point to 'Fasier'.
It appeared to be the juggernaut which rolled into town.

Ever since US sitcoms have tried to recapture its vibe.
But to my mind, TBBT is the first sitcom to at last equal that behemoth.
In some aspects I would say it has even surpassed it.

I think TBBT's successful tactic of increasing its cast, especially its female ensemble, in order to increase the options in storytelling, will be clinically dissected for some time to come.
So there may indeed some influence apparent, eventually.
But any such influence can only ever be brought to bear in shows which are capable of deriving any benefit from it.

Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 2nd May 2015, 8:42 AM BST

Has someone caught George Roper disease? Not sure why TBBT needed a new thread myself. The other one dealt with new series very well.

I don't like the act of running a sitcom into the earth's core the way that lot do. Having said that I think it got to 100 eps without tiring too much. Probably because of the intensive filming method over a very short period and the fact the episodes are only 21 mins long.

But to keep banging out the same prog year after year is like being told the same joke again and again, or being run over by the same bus. The speed at which they are made and the intensity of the broadcast schedule is a huge problem for me. It means quite soon after discovering a good new sitcom you are choked to death with it and can't bear it anymore.

I will never agree with the American method. Fawlty Towers' 12 gems will forever outshine any and all US sitcoms. Fact.

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Yes, the Yanks like milking a success. No doubt.
But as their 'milked' stuff still outperforms our first and second 6-part series output, then they might just have a point.
The current eighth series of TBBT is still superior to 'Peter Kay's Car Share'.

As for 'Fawlty Towers', once again I must point out that it lies closer in time to the second world war than to us. Yes, it was brilliant. But what else do we want to wax lyrical about forever more? Dame Vera Lynn?

I know this sounds harsh. But the truth is we are these days not capable of producing a 'Fawlty Towers' anymore.

And if we're honest, we have to concede that we also cannot produce a TBBT. Not because we choose not to. But simply because we are not able.
Else would we really forego that sort of money voluntarily and leave it to the Yanks? Of course not. We'd leap at it.
Our channels don't have the money, we are unlikely even to have sufficient numbers of established writers to call on to form such rolling teams.

Now would I like brilliant large teams like that involved in TBBT to be writing a great variety of shorter sitcoms? Yes.
But that is not an option.

We either have large teams creating big US projects and then draining the last drop from it, or we simply stick to the British model which has ceased working.

I maintain that the US ever since 'Frasier' owns sitcom. We have not come up with anything worthwhile for a long time now and our output is getting thinner and thinner.

Thus I applaud TBBT.
Those folks have created something lasting. Whether we like the methodology, the industry, or the length of its run is irrelevant. Because at least they are creating something worthwhile.
A classic mainstream comedy with memorable characters and some lovely scenes one is unlikely to forget in a hurry.

Of course as it draws to an end it gets thinner and the chance of their creating truly classic episodes grow more slight. But at times they still do.

Whereas on this side of the pond we have a fat man in a car with a woman singing badly.... hilarious.

Oh well, that's that series finished - was just about enjoyable.

Still don't like Penny's hair.