Quote: Rogk @ November 17 2007, 6:10 AM BSTWhen I watched Fresh Fields I spent a lot of the time counting how many times they called each other 'darling'.
And how many times was it, Darling?
Fresh Fields Page 3
The difficulty with 'sofa sitcoms' of this kind (i.e. also Terry And June) was that they presented a totally unreal view of comfortable middle-class inner suburban life during the grim period that was the early 1980s. Comedy to succeed must have an edge (often tinged with tragedy). "Till Death Do Us Part" and "Steptoe and Son" both covered vanishing lifestyles (in the former case the death of employment in London's Docks and in the latter case the end of 'totting'). And there was always the last episode of "Blackadder", a tragi-comic masterpiece. This is why the "Terry And June" genre did not stand the test of time.
The Americans seemed to like it, didn't it grab a Grammy? Didn't focus on it too much myself but I did think it was nice and light and well acted and made a decent background sitcom for hoovering the carpet to. Like so many of those light domestic sitcoms of the period. A genre once stuffed to the rafters that is virtually extinct now.
Quote: Mark smithers @ 17th November 2014, 10:23 PM GMTThe difficulty with 'sofa sitcoms' of this kind (i.e. also Terry And June) was that they presented a totally unreal view of comfortable middle-class inner suburban life during the grim period that was the early 1980s. Comedy to succeed must have an edge (often tinged with tragedy). "Till Death Do Us Part" and "Steptoe and Son" both covered vanishing lifestyles (in the former case the death of employment in London's Docks and in the latter case the end of 'totting'). And there was always the last episode of "Blackadder", a tragi-comic masterpiece. This is why the "Terry And June" genre did not stand the test of time.
I disagree. I was brought up in the 1970s/1980s in exactly the kind of middle class suburbia typified by these 'sofa sitcoms' it's now so fashionable to sneer at. It's a myth that the early 1980s were a grim period, for the majority of middle class people in England it was a wonderful, simpler time when people spoke to their neighbours, visited the local pub and played a part in their community.
The only point I agree with is that they lacked an "edge" and there wasn't enough genuine conflict. However there were classic sitcoms of that time which did, despite being extremely middle-class; "Reginald Perrin" and "Ever Decreasing Circles" being the two obvious examples.
Obviously one does not want to dwell too much on political argument but it is clear to me that one of the main reasons for Britain's decline during the last 150 years (and consequent deficit problem now) has been an excessive tendency to rely upon, and indeed worship, the finance sector. This is the main destructive symptom of the 'middle class' values exemplified by the Terry And June school of sitcom.
The 1980s drew many people into a false sense of security on this one and it is no surprise that Fresh Fields (of which I was at the recording of Episode 1/2) was at the height of its popularity when this false Utopia was in the ascendancy, with its successor French Fields falling from favour when the largely middle class recession of the 1990s took root.
This is not in any way an insult to either of its principal actors, particularly as Ms Mckenzie is well known for her Sondheim-orientated work, being a patron of the Stephen Sondheim Society (an organisation of which I was Vice-Chairman for four years), as is Jenna Russell from On The Up (another 'Thatcher-era' sitcom).
Of course it is possible to have middle class 'edge' sitcoms: I would agree that the excellent The Fall And Rise Of Reginald Perrin was the leader in this field, but the additional point of interest here is that this was not originally written as a comedy. The 1990s had two fine sitcoms aimed at particular social structures in the forms of The Brittas Empire (modern business methodology) and The Vicar Of Dibley (the 'Squirearchy'). The wrong turning in the field of 'edge' sitcoms was The Young Ones, which, in my view, was not funny, it was simply frantic.
I can't remember a great deal about their lives but they were well off middle class, yes, but I recall the tone of the show was very upbeat and happy. It was an affirmation of the professional class lifestyle, showing middle class professionals can be light and happy and a bit carefree and ditzy at home, that's why Mackenzie was cast.
A very light and breezy sitcom with not a hint of the satire and cynicism Reggie Perrin had, which was altogether a different class of sitcom.
Much as I admire Ms Mckenzie, my own view is that Reggie Perrin was a great deal closer to reality than Terry And June or Fresh Fields.
Fresh Fields deserves to remain in obscurity. It was on a par with Terry and June, Home To Roost, Faith In The Future, Brighton Belles and many other anaemically bland southern suburban sitcoms of the 70s and 80s
I never liked these at the time and when I've seen some replayed on Drama or Yesterday I still see them as forced and lame. As others here have noted, the best sitcoms have a bit of edge, social commentary but more importantly lead characters with major personality defects. Being a bit dithery and easily flustered, like Terry (and June), doesn't really cut it.
The most important personality defect is that of being deluded. Note how deluded Harold Steptoe was in his social ambitions (despite being a Socialist, in one episode of S.& S. he had aspirations to join the golf club and the Freemasons). Similarly we have Citizen Smith with his revolutionary aspirations, 'Del Boy' Trotter about his business acumen and Gordon Brittas in relation to his management skills, and so the list goes on. Sometimes a very ordinary sitcom with no 'inadequate' personalities can have a memorable moment (such as Gwen Taylor's wonderful 'basque' scene in the opening episode of Conjugal Rites), but such moments are few and far between!
Quote: Mark smithers @ 22nd December 2014, 6:36 PM GMTThe most important personality defect is that of being deluded. Note how deluded Harold Steptoe was in his social ambitions (despite being a Socialist, in one episode of S.& S. he had aspirations to join the golf club and the Freemasons). Similarly we have Citizen Smith with his revolutionary aspirations, 'Del Boy' Trotter about his business acumen and Gordon Brittas in relation to his management skills, and so the list goes on. Sometimes a very ordinary sitcom with no 'inadequate' personalities can have a memorable moment (such as Gwen Taylor's wonderful 'basque' scene in the opening episode of Conjugal Rites), but such moments are few and far between!
Yup, you're probably right there viz self-delusion and even pomposity. You can add Frasier Crane, Hyacinth Bouquet, Margot Leadbetter, Captain Mainwaring, Ted Crilly.
Mind you irascibility and grumpiness run it very close what with Victor Meldrew, Basil Fawlty, Tony Hancock, Leonard Rigsby, Bernard Black, George Costanza, Dr House, Louie de Palma, private Fraser....
Quote: Alexei Q @ 23rd December 2014, 9:54 AM GMTYup, you're probably right there viz self-delusion and even pomposity. You can add Frasier Crane, Hyacinth Bouquet, Margot Leadbetter, Captain Mainwaring, Ted Crilly.
Mind you irascibility and grumpiness run it very close what with Victor Meldrew, Basil Fawlty, Tony Hancock, Leonard Rigsby, Bernard Black, George Costanza, Dr House, Louie de Palma, private Fraser....
The classic example of pomposity was C.J. ("I didn't get where I am today by...") in Reggie Perrin. Even Reggie was deluded as every effort he made to escape his predicament only landed him with the same characters.
I love this series have the first two series on DVD. I like the humour in it: it's gentle and not in your face and there is no bad language. Nowadays all sitcoms always have to have swearing in to be funny. Fresh Fields didn't need that at all.
I really liked Fresh Fields, I love these middle class shows about their kids flying the nest and what they are going to do with rest of their lives. Julia McKenzie is a brilliant actress and she plays a great character in Hester who wants to do something exciting with her life after their kids leave home. Anton Rodgers is great as William and love his reactions when Sonia comes around to borrow things all the time. I must say the gag with Sonia borrowing things all the time got boring rather quickly imo. Peter was a great character as Emma's husband, a great character, funny in his first appearance where he was attracted to Hester! Also thought it was interesting we never saw Emma in Fresh Fields just heard her voice phoning at the wrong times usually which was funny! Fresh Fields was great!
Quote: Alexei Q @ 23rd December 2014, 9:54 AMYup, you're probably right there viz self-delusion and even pomposity. You can add Frasier Crane, Hyacinth Bouquet, Margot Leadbetter, Captain Mainwaring, Ted Crilly.
Mind you irascibility and grumpiness run it very close what with Victor Meldrew, Basil Fawlty, Tony Hancock, Leonard Rigsby, Bernard Black, George Costanza, Dr House, Louie de Palma, private Fraser....
Although several of these were also pompous social climbers with aspirations out of their reach. I'd have to agree that Folly De Grandeur is the number one sitcom 'monster' character trait. Plenty of others to add to the list as well, Arnold Rimmer, Edmund Blackadder, Martin Bryce, Rik from TYO, even Rab C Nesbitt. And more...
Quote: Mark smithers @ 22nd December 2014, 6:36 PMThe most important personality defect is that of being deluded. Note how deluded Harold Steptoe was in his social ambitions (despite being a Socialist, in one episode of S.& S. he had aspirations to join the golf club and the Freemasons). Similarly we have Citizen Smith with his revolutionary aspirations, 'Del Boy' Trotter about his business acumen and Gordon Brittas in relation to his management skills, and so the list goes on.
Tick. Excellent post should be on the scribblers thread.
Quote: Alexei Q @ 17th December 2014, 9:49 AMFresh Fields deserves to remain in obscurity. It was on a par with Terry and June, Home To Roost, Faith In The Future, Brighton Belles and many other anaemically bland southern suburban sitcoms of the 70s and 80s
I never liked these at the time and when I've seen some replayed on Drama or Yesterday I still see them as forced and lame. As others here have noted, the best sitcoms have a bit of edge, social commentary but more importantly lead characters with major personality defects. Being a bit dithery and easily flustered, like Terry (and June), doesn't really cut it.
Yes I agree the best sitcoms have that edge but without the middling nice and inoffensive sitcoms like FF, of which there used to be hundreds on TV, it's harder for the best sitcoms to stand out.