DIY Page 8

Quote: Hercules Grytpype Thynne @ 10th October 2014, 10:09 AM BST

Always Ceiling, Walls, Woodwork, and with that you only need to sand it down to give the new paint a "key" to stick to - also removes any grease = or sugar soap it. The only time you would strip back to the bare wood would be if the original paintwork was very badly done previous (drips, runs) or it was flaking badly. Incidentally, sandpaper is a bit "old hat" now - use some sort of grit paper, which lasts longer - example:-

http://www.screwfix.com/p/flexovit-aluminium-oxide-sanding-roll-115mm-x-25m-120-grit/6967d

You can buy this in smaller quantities from say B&Q

Preparation is everything - get that all done first and if you have further work to do on the walls or woodwork, this can be followed up while you paint the ceiling.

Removing old wallpaper - should come off by just giving in it a good soaking in water, and with a bit of luck it will simply fall off the wall, but you do have to use a scraper sometimes - especially if it had been over-painted. If you do have a whole room to strip of over-painted wallpaper - best of luck as it is a bastard job! Might try in that case to hire a steam stripper - very good.

Chips/holes in the wall - if you have few then get a tub of ready mixed filler, or if you are on a budget then buy the powder, which keeps longer and you can mix as required. Always dampen the hole you are filling first with either a spray bottle (ideal - old washed out cleaner bottle of some description will do) or use a paint brush to soak the hole after you have removed any loose dust/plaster. If the hole is bigger than say 1" don't be tempted to fill it in one go as the filler will/can start to sag out of the hole and always "key" the first fill well into the hole - force it into every nook and cranny. Over the years the ideal tool I have found for this is a putty knife - in fact I have found that in particular the most useful of all in DIY as it has such a multitude of uses. Large or small holes, you will find that the filler will shrink slightly as it dries so inevitably you have to fill twice anyway. You will know when the filler has gone off/set - it will be hard.

Wallpaper. If you have a decent wall, then why not just paint it. If not then line it first with a quality lining paper - this will of course give you the opportunity to hang paper without having to worry about a pattern. Also, to speed up the process, cut all the lining paper up into lengths first of say the height of the wall plus 4" - this will give you couple of inches to play with top and bottom when you hang it. AND always have two lengths on the go at the same time - one pasted ready to go on the wall (lightly folded) and by the time you have pasted second one, the first one will be ready to hang, and the reason for this is that the wallpaper will slightly expand as it takes up the moisture from the paste, so that if you tried to hang it straight after pasting it, you will find that the edges will push against each other and it will look a f**king mess. Forgot to mention wall prep. - if it has decent plaster then paper straight onto it. If not, then "size" it with a watery mix of wallpaper paste, or if it is really bad a watery mix of PVA.

You mention anaglypta wallpaper - yup, this is fine but you will probably have a pattern to hang to. The advantage of this is that it covers up a multitude of sins, thereby the wall doesn't have to be perfect. BUT DO NOT use wood chip paper - it is cheap and nasty and looks that when on the wall.

Ideally, you should overpaint anaglypta or lining paper.

OK, so let me know when you have got the hang of that, and we'll discuss how to wallpaper a ceiling!

View original

It is kind of you to provide this detail. The reason why I haven't commented until now is that it all seems beyond my capabilities. I am not sure why. It could be something about throwing myself into it - which I do with anything once a decision to go ahead is made - but then feeling on a sort of emotional roller coaster throughout about whether I've made the right interpretations. Here is the first of two sets of questions:

1. The woodwork will need papering down to bare wood. No question. It has gone two decades without attention and is not in a good state. Can I just then paint on top of it, assuming it is a smooth surface?

2. It is not only the skirting board. There are also floor to ceiling cupboard doors and wood around an inner glass skylight. How many hours should the papering take? I may want to do that bit first as it is less messy.

3. I am concerned about getting paint on that glass and also on the window. I am very methodical when I know what I am doing and all-over-the-place clumsy when I don't. It's either absolute - almost pinpoint - clarity or total confusion with me. There are no grey areas. It seems to me that I should somehow tape around the edges but I feel vague about it. So how? And would it be any guarantee of window protection?

4. In places the paper is already falling off the walls. But I'm sure that if I attempt to peel it off it will stick in loads of areas. Is it a case of just sloshing warm water on and if so is it on the upper or lower surface?

Will come back to you on Monday or Tuesday.

1. The woodwork will need papering down to bare wood. No question. It has gone two decades without attention and is not in a good state. Can I just then paint on top of it, assuming it is a smooth surface?

You have two straight choices.

A/. Rub it all down to as smooth surface as you can, which is what I would do - once you have some nice new paint on it, it should look fine. Using an undercoat first will give the top coat a good base and better finish over all.

B/. Strip all the paint off down to the bare wood. Now this is a lot longer job of course and you will need to use an undercoat first before you finish off with the top coat.

Two ways of taking all the paint off. 1/. Chemically or 2/. With heat. Both messy!

Chemically - there are various on the market, this is a good one:- http://www.homecareessentials.co.uk/acatalog/NitroMors_Paint_and_Varnish_Remover_375ml.html?gclid=CLabucGOqcECFfHKtAodSTcAWw

Heat - Buy or hire a Paint Stripper Gun. It's like a very powerful hairdryer!
Having said all that, the old paintwork would have to be seriously bad to have to strip it back to the wood. If you rub it down well and use an undercoat first along with a good quality top coat that should be perfectly adequate and save you a lot of work.

Be careful when you rub down the window frames as grit/sand paper will scratch the glass

Either way you will also need a couple of scrapers - these are two I find essential:-

http://www.homehardware.ca/en/rec/index.htm/Paint-D%C3%A9cor/Painting-Supplies/Paint-Applicator-Acc/Preparation-Tools/Scrapers/Crevace-Wood-and-Paint-Scraper/_/N-ntmadZ2pq2/R-I1660287?Num=1

http://www.decoratingdirect.co.uk/viewprod/r/RODRFK/

2. It is not only the skirting board. There are also floor to ceiling cupboard doors and wood around an inner glass skylight. How many hours should the papering take? I may want to do that bit first as it is less messy.

How long will it take? Phew - I've no idea. Depends on you (how apt you are), how many cuts, what paper (patterned or not) you are using etc.etc. A professional decorator will cut all the wallpaper to lengths first before he starts, but you need a lot of confidence to do this especially if there is a large pattern involved - when using lining paper of course this is irrelevant or if you were using a "fussy" small pattern OR a vertical stripe paper it should be workable. I usually cut up a roll at a time - even I am not that confident!! Remember, if you are cutting it up in lengths to allow about plus 4" to play with when using lining paper - patterned paper cut it up as you go and also remember you need two lengths on the go all the time - one pasted "soaking" while you are hanging the other one.

If you are going to paint the wallpaper (lining or Anaglypta) then paint the woodwork second, if you are papering a patterned paper woodwork first, natch! Generally it is assumed that in painting walls you are more likely to splash the paint, whereas painting woodwork is a more (or should!)
precise art.

And paint (emulsion) the ceiling first.

3. I am concerned about getting paint on that glass and also on the window. I am very methodical when I know what I am doing and all-over-the-place clumsy when I don't. It's either absolute - almost pinpoint - clarity or total confusion with me. There are no grey areas. It seems to me that I should somehow tape around the edges but I feel vague about it. So how? And would it be any guarantee of window protection?

Painting window frames is something you develop a knack for over time, but if not used to it then by all means use masking tape. Whatever way you go for, it is inevitable that you will get some splashes on the glass, so don't worry about it as any paint will scrape off glass quite easily (let it dry - I have even used my thumbnail in the past) - what I would def. recommend for paint blobs on glass is a Stanley Window Scraper - cheap and a good way of using old less sharp blades from a Stanley knife. Essential bit of kit!

http://www.euroffice.co.uk/product/Stanley-Window-Scraper-Ref-0-28-590/ADD265?AFF=LIG8049943&gclid=CNGOo8CbqcECFbPJtAodEFcAnQ&s=1#.VDuNx85waDY

Apart from that, a system I developed myself for window frames (especially for the outside where you need a good seal between the glass and the frame) is to run a thin bead of decorator's caulk (filler to you and me) with a mastic gun and then smooth it down with a damp finger - it should "go off" in about 10/15 mins. and can then be over painted. This not only seals the glass to the window frame but also gives a nice line to work to when you come to paint them "freehand".

http://tinyurl.com/ppfo3hd

http://www.diy.com/departments/soudal-300ml-white-decorators-caulk/58025_BQ.prd

4. In places the paper is already falling off the walls. But I'm sure that if I attempt to peel it off it will stick in loads of areas. Is it a case of just sloshing warm water on and if so is it on the upper or lower surface?

As you say quite rightly, it is sods law that there will be bits of paper that have stuck to the wall better than in other areas. Preferably you need to strip all the paper off, and yes just give it a good soak in plain water - you will know when it is completely soaked and ready to simply peel off (!) as it will go dark, whereas that bastard bit that won't shift will not look any different. If you do have a stubborn piece (say it is vinyl or has been painted with an oil based paint) then chip the surface of it and keep soaking - it will come off eventually. As mentioned previous, if you have a large area of stubborn paper then hire a steam paper stripper.

Dive into it! You'll be fine and you never know might get a taste for it like I did many years ago - and I wasn't joking when I said the next step is papering a ceiling - great fun!

When I was a student I used to offer services such as car washing, gardening etc. to the local folk. I'm crap at DIY but this old lady asked me to assemble a flat pack TV cabinet, it was really quite a complicated thing and it was way beyond my capability. It probably took me about 6 hours, I did wrong about 3 times and had to start from scratch again and again, I stabbed myself with the screwdriver, hit myself with the hammer, stuck my hand to the thing with glue, it was a nightmare. The old lady was ready for bed but at about midnight I had finally finished, all I needed to do was put the top panel on so I carefully lined up all the dowels correctly but it just needed a bit of a push. So I slammed it down a bit which made all of the dowels come through the top of the thing. I basically ruined it. She still paid me though.

[quote name="Mikey88" post="1094974" date="14th October 2014, 11:38 AM BST"
The old lady was ready for bed but at about midnight I had finally finished, all I needed to do was put the top panel on so I carefully lined up all the dowels correctly but it just needed a bit of a push. So I slammed it down a bit which made all of the dowels come through the top of the thing. I basically ruined it. She still paid me though.
[/quote]

What for the cabinet, or.................

Actualy maybe I paid her; I can't remember, there was definitely some money invovled

Thanks for your very detailed reply to my first four questions HGT. I am
not sure what the other four questions are now as there have been further
twists and turns. Certainly I can identify with Mikey's comments and I also
wonder how it was that one of my grandmothers and my late Aunt Doll could
have been so adept at these sorts of things. What I am finding is that the
phrases "sod's law", "that bastard bit", "you'll be fine" and "great fun"
don't necessarily gel in my mind. Incidentally, the way that previous posts
go beyond the screen makes lining up the words on the right hand side difficult.

Earlier in the week I began the process of removing the wallpaper. This
has now finished although there are a few small bits still stuck there
like cotton wool on a room sized chin after a bad shave. Along the way,
I discovered that two walls had a lower level of thin brown wrapping
paper stuck on with a newsagent's glue and those proved the most
problematic. I worked for hours on it not only during the day but twice
through the night to breakfast time. It became an obsession. I don't know
what it is about me and walls but staring at them makes me go odd inside.

So I kept really losing it. Seeing shapes and letters in the pieces
left on those walls. At one point there was Australia and on another
occasion Bill Will's picture. The one he uses on the forum.
There was a message that I couldn't decipher. Fortunately,
in contrast, a small outer wall took a fraction of that time and
the removal was so clean it left no blobs.
That was due to a layer of white stuff below it which initially I
thought was polystyrene. It was only after I had removed most of it, with
powder showering down from it, that the word "asbestos" entered my head and
I went it to a God almighty panic. While neighbours have said to me that
it definitely isn't asbestos, I've felt as if my lungs have been full of
it ever since. I'm still coughing badly because of it though not like yesterday.

What I am left with are what I think are four bare walls - a mixture
of white and blue-green irregular swirls. That is confusing because
they have lines down them as if they too are paper but I don't think it is paper
so perhaps they are marks left by what was above them. Because I have the
asbestos thing in my head, I have now transferred anxiety about whether
the polystyrene stuff was asbestos to whether the blue-green irregular
swirls are asbestos although they are probably integral to the wall. It
is the colour mostly and also the fact that I don't know why there
would be irregular swirls and not just plain white. This page is troubling.

Would think the white stuff was polystyrene, which I have seen used as an insulation - will also cover a lot of humps and bumps on a bad wall and given time and damp it could deteriorate into a white powdery substance. Nothing to worry about, and would hardly think it was asbestos as there would be no point in fireproofing a brick/plastered wall - even plasterboard is fireproof to a certain extent.

The blue/green swirls are probably the residue from some old wallpaper that has "stained" the wall through dampness, BUT and now I ask how old is this building(?) - in the 18th/19th century the only way to get the colour green in wallpaper was via arsenic, which when it got damp would give off a gas, which some say was what killed Napoleon when he was in exile. That is a very basically it without going into the technicalities - alternatives were found in the late Victorian period. It could be with that in mind, someone had tried to cover up the problem with polystyrene sheeting. It's a long shot and if your house is late Victorian onwards, then you have nothing to worry about.

Oh dear, I hope I haven't given you more to fret about..........

Quote: Hercules Grytpype Thynne @ 17th October 2014, 8:02 PM BST

Would think the white stuff was polystyrene, which I have seen used as an insulation - will also cover a lot of humps and bumps on a bad wall and given time and damp it could deteriorate into a white powdery substance. Nothing to worry about, and would hardly think it was asbestos as there would be no point in fireproofing a brick/plastered wall - even plasterboard is fireproof to a certain extent.

The blue/green swirls are probably the residue from some old wallpaper that has "stained" the wall through dampness, BUT and now I ask how old is this building(?) - in the 18th/19th century the only way to get the colour green in wallpaper was via arsenic, which when it got damp would give off a gas, which some say was what killed Napoleon when he was in exile. That is a very basically it without going into the technicalities - alternatives were found in the late Victorian period. It could be with that in mind, someone had tried to cover up the problem with polystyrene sheeting. It's a long shot and if your house is late Victorian onwards, then you have nothing to worry about.

Oh dear, I hope I haven't given you more to fret about..........

View original

It was built in 1968 so it isn't arsenic. I am hoping someone is turning
up after 11.30am on Saturday, to assess it and provide an estimate.

Probably best for peace of mind.

Quote: Hercules Grytpype Thynne @ 18th October 2014, 8:11 AM BST

Probably best for peace of mind.

View original

Well, HGT, he came at the time agreed. None of it is asbestos or
arsenic. He wants to use Zinsser Cover Stain Gold on the ceiling
and the woodwork. The walls would be lined and painted with Dulux
Diamond Matt. What do you think? I'm getting a quote from him in
the next 48 hours. I asked him what it wouldn't be more than. He
said it certainly wouldn't be as much as £1,000. The room's 12 x 9.

Don't know that brand of stain blocker,
but have checked it out and it seems the
standard thing, and that stuff isn't cheap -
have used it a lot in the past and is very
effective, although having said that,
any oil based matt paint would do a similar job.
My only query is why he is not doing the walls
with it, which I thought you said were the
big problem? Not unless he is lining them with
something equally effective, but cannot think
what that could be not unless it was foil
backed in some way - very good for stopping
damp coming through as well.

Dulux Diamond Matt is a new one on me
- have looked at it on the Dulux site
and they claim it is 5 times tougher than
their Eggshell, which, if they are both
water based (Diamond Matt is) may well be true;
BUT cannot see how it can be so when compared
to a good oil based Eggshell. The trouble is
that through EU regulations oil based paints
are being gradually phased out, which is a
shame as there is no way a water based
paint can compete with oil based for hard
wearing AND , as far as you are concerned
...............stain blocking.

As far as the cost is concerned it does
sound a tad high, but that depends on where
you live. About 5 years ago I had a medium
sized 3 bed house painted top to bottom walls
and woodwork (no ceilings) for
£1,250 but that was via a jobbing painter who
gave it all a quick splosh. It sounds to me
that he is going to do a good thorough job and
not use cheap paint, so.....................
maybe it is about right. One thing for sure,
if he says it certainly wouldn't be as much as
£1,000 that it won't be far off it!

Quote: Hercules Grytpype Thynne @ 18th October 2014, 4:42 PM BST

Don't know that brand of stain blocker,
but have checked it out and it seems the
standard thing, and that stuff isn't cheap -
have used it a lot in the past and is very
effective, although having said that,
any oil based matt paint would do a similar job.
My only query is why he is not doing the walls
with it, which I thought you said were the
big problem? Not unless he is lining them with
something equally effective, but cannot think
what that could be not unless it was foil
backed in some way - very good for stopping
damp coming through as well.

Dulux Diamond Matt is a new one on me
- have looked at it on the Dulux site
and they claim it is 5 times tougher than
their Eggshell, which, if they are both
water based (Diamond Matt is) may well be true;
BUT cannot see how it can be so when compared
to a good oil based Eggshell. The trouble is
that through EU regulations oil based paints
are being gradually phased out, which is a
shame as there is no way a water based
paint can compete with oil based for hard
wearing AND , as far as you are concerned
...............stain blocking.

As far as the cost is concerned it does
sound a tad high, but that depends on where
you live. About 5 years ago I had a medium
sized 3 bed house painted top to bottom walls
and woodwork (no ceilings) for
£1,250 but that was via a jobbing painter who
gave it all a quick splosh. It sounds to me
that he is going to do a good thorough job and
not use cheap paint, so.....................
maybe it is about right. One thing for sure,
if he says it certainly wouldn't be as much as
£1,000 that it won't be far off it!

View original

I've had a second one round this morning who thinks
his quote will be cheaper. Some sort of grinding
treatment to the walls first - the problem there in
most places is more the glue used for the original paper
rather than staining, then a liner and cheaper paint.
£36 a tin rather than £50 a tin. I will get both quotes
by tomorrow night. Currently it just feels like a costly
muddle. Even allowing for the 5 years ago, the no
ceilings and the quick slosh, £1,250 for an entire 3
bedroom house and getting on for £1,000 for 1 small to
medium sized room looks like quite a big mismatch to me.

As mentioned previous - it also depends on where you live.

That is I live in Suffolk, whereas if it had been say London, then charges would be very different.

If they are doing a very professional job, then up to £1,000 might not be far off the mark - get three estimates if you can and ask what they are going to do for the money. Have also done some of the prep. myself in the past which most people will be happy for you to do.

Quote: Hercules Grytpype Thynne @ 19th October 2014, 6:00 PM BST

As mentioned previous - it also depends on where you live.

That is I live in Suffolk, whereas if it had been say London, then charges would be very different.

If they are doing a very professional job, then up to £1,000 might not be far off the mark - get three estimates if you can and ask what they are going to do for the money. Have also done some of the prep. myself in the past which most people will be happy for you to do.

View original

Gawd.

The first one was supposed to produce a quote in 48
hours. 74 hours on, nothing. The second has produced
one for £800 but it isn't clear as yet if that will be
inclusive of VAT. If it isn't, it's back to square one.

Hating every moment of this business before any work.