Quote: Jennie @ 25th May 2014, 11:45 PM BSTLike Hitler?
Quote: Jennie @ 25th May 2014, 11:56 PM BSTI was not comparing Farage to Hitler.
Too nuanced for me.
I read the news today oh boy! Page 1,593
It was cheap
And could be applied to virtually any politician
Also nigel is likeable.and avuncular not mesmeric
There's more than one kind of charisma
It was cheap
And could be applied to virtually any politician
Also nigel is likeable.and avuncular not mesmeric
There's more than one kind of charisma
Quote: sootyj @ 25th May 2014, 11:59 PM BSTAlso nigel is likeable.
Really? Have to say he makes my skin crawl a bit, personally.
Quote: Matthew Stott @ 26th May 2014, 12:00 AM BSTReally? Have to say he makes my skin crawl a bit, personally.
Ditto. When the chips are down I go by my gut feeling about other human beings and it never lets me down.
That sweaty fish head laughing it up, grasping a beer and fag at every opportunity to show what a bloke he is. Yuck.
Quote: Matthew Stott @ 26th May 2014, 12:00 AM BSTReally? Have to say he makes my skin crawl a bit, personally.
Agreed but he's free of party dogma and people find that refreshing. Including me. The problem lies with the mainstream politicians. When was the last time any of them answered a straight question. He's straight out of mid-west America. Straight talking and no-nonsense. Other politicians are finally waking up to the fact that it's ok to have a personality. Probably too late.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 25th May 2014, 11:25 PM BSTWhile we're at, as none of them said they are the Devil, I must conclude that they are all the Devil. Making things up is fun!
I do wonder whether you think it's a good thing or not for democracy for a party to go to the electorate asking for their vote when the party doesn't actually have a policy on so many things. It seems to me that you are celebrating this fact rather than bemoaning it. I can only conclude that I prefer my definition of democracy.
I wouldn't want Farage as PM, but appreciate that his presence at the sharp-end of politics will keep a complacent, dull and air-brushed group of mainstream career politicians on their toes.
We need men like NF in politics, just not with too much power.
Quote: Badge @ 26th May 2014, 12:49 AM BSTI do wonder whether you think it's a good thing or not for democracy for a party to go to the electorate asking for their vote when the party doesn't actually have a policy on so many things. It seems to me that you are celebrating this fact rather than bemoaning it. I can only conclude that I prefer my definition of democracy.
Again yes, I highly doubt the Conservatives will have lost their council for more than one term.
Opposing or wanting to reduce immigration is not inherently racist and certainly not Nazi.
To be flippant Hitler imported millions of people from across Europe many to be murdered, many to be slaves.
Every country has some degree of immigration and border control. And right across Europe people and parties are weighing up how happy they are to have handed the responsibility over to the EU.
An organisation that has shown it's self to be undemocratic, unaccountable and to have a barely hidden agenda on expanding markets and keeping them in. I don't think I'm the only person who saw Iceland's antirecession policies and thought hmmmm that'd be nice but it won't happen in the EU.
UKIP supporters are not automatically racist or foolish. Some will look at Greece and Portugal who effectively had large areas of their governments taken over. Or the joke of human rights and governmental accountability in Rumania and wondered what is this all about.
Quote: sootyj @ 26th May 2014, 8:24 AM BSTOpposing or wanting to reduce immigration is not inherently racist and certainly not Nazi.
At the extreme ends of the spectrums the attitude seems to be "if you are not 100% at our end of the spectrum, then you must be 100% at the other end of it".
Both sides are guilty of this.
Extreme left regards anyone who wants to even discuss immigration as a genocidal Nazi, and the extreme right feel that anyone who doesn't belong to Stormfront is a limp-wristed, bleeding-heart, pussy-whipped "libtard".
I'd partially agree. Firstly the extreme right don't even stand in elections in the UK, by which I mean C18 they barely come out of the shadows. The very right wing e.g. the BNP and EDL have been wiped out at the elections. EDL didn't and occasionally have a rally where the police have to stop them getting beaten up. Which I guess leaves UKIP who are very right wing but would and do fire members for joining the BNP and I suspect Stormfront.
On the very left wing e.g. Left Unity then they absolutely do equate any doubts on immigration with racism/fascism. And on the more centre left are still very fixed on painting UKIP as racist/facist.
The big myth propagated by the liberal left is that voters are responding to economic hard times by believing the poison of demagogues who blame all our problems on immigrants as the enemy within, like the Nazis did with the Jews in thirties Germany. We have failed to learn the lessons of history they say, displaying their contempt for the ignorant electoral masses. Only of course the voters are much savvier, and fundamentally more decent, than they give them credit for. That is why it is the affably potty old fogies of UKIP who have struck a nerve, while the bile spouting BNP and their thick-necked ilk have never succeeded in being more than an irrelevance. I do not see much hatred of immigrants out there, only anger at the politicians who opened the doors to them. That is what the cosy cartel at the heart of British politics need to wake up to, that it is not the immigrants at risk of the angry mob, it is them.
Quote: Badge @ 26th May 2014, 12:49 AM BSTI can only conclude that I prefer my definition of democracy.
What is your definition of democracy? Is it different from the standard definition of democracy? Are you criticising my voting choice or my right to vote? Does UKIP not count as a political party? Should they be excluded from the democratic process and if so, why? Please elaborate.
He asked you a question first.
Quote: sootyj @ 26th May 2014, 8:24 AM BSTOpposing or wanting to reduce immigration is not inherently racist and certainly not Nazi.
Every country has some degree of immigration and border control. And right across Europe people and parties are weighing up how happy they are to have handed the responsibility over to the EU.
An organisation that has shown it's self to be undemocratic, unaccountable and to have a barely hidden agenda on expanding markets and keeping them in.
Nicely put.
Quote: Jennie @ 26th May 2014, 12:20 PM BSTHe asked you a question first.
I didn't see a question mark.
Quote: Tursiops @ 26th May 2014, 10:52 AM BSTThat is what the cosy cartel at the heart of British politics need to wake up to, that it is not the immigrants at risk of the angry mob, it is them.
Labour's reaction that the precious working class, whom they bought and paid for and have owned for a 100 years have dared to vote UKIP has been quite amusing.