Anarchistic 'democracy' in action.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27559537
Thank goodness our elections are not like those.
I read the news today oh boy! Page 1,587
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-27562917
A young dude went on a murder rampage in California. I say murder rampage rather than gun rampage as he killed six people - three with a knife and three with a pistol.
More nutters with guns.
Knife tally: 3 dead
Gun tally: 4 dead and 8 wounded.
Quote: Jennie @ 25th May 2014, 1:38 PM BSTMore nutters with guns.
He was indeed a 'nutter' - he suffered from Asperger's Syndrome and was under psychiatric care. Though I'm quite shocked at your use of insensitive language to describe the mentally ill.
But maybe you're right, maybe we should lock up those with mental conditions in case they go on another rampage.
We have two choices - lock up the people or lock up the guns.
I know which one I'd pick.
Well you can divide the killings into 2 distinctive stages. First him running around with a knife and surprising the people in his home. Tragic and unpreventable unless you ban any kind of dangerous object.
Second is him driving around and killing random strangers. Now I'm going to take the pepsi challenge, that if he had to get out of his car and stab people or try and run them over in groups he'd most likely failed.
In cases where people tried to do that like in Wales last year, the figures for deaths were very, very low.
Ultimately guns are not the only weapons that kill they're just amongst the most efficent. I mean I suppose grenades or atom bombs are worse. But guns well they're the murder equivalent of taking your Cliff Notes into an exam.
And RCP is right, we can all get to quick to blame mental health on these terrible acts. All too often it's assholes, some times mentally ill assholes, but the being the asshole is the biggest factor.
Quote: Jennie @ 25th May 2014, 1:44 PM BSTWe have two choices - lock up the people or lock up the guns.
I know which one I'd pick.
I'm sure your choice would be based on a number of clinical, legal and statistical factors and not be some draconian, emotive, kneejerk, dogmatic, illogical and nonsensical action based on ignorance and fear.
I was waiting for RC to hop on here about this story to attack the anti-gun sentiments that have obviously followed. Took your time!
Of course it would. 
Soots says it all perfectly.
Crime is motivation plus opportunity. If you cannot change the motivation, reduce the opportunity.
Aspergers is not a mental illness.
Renegade, just out of interest, how many people can you kill with a knife from 20 feet?
Quote: Jennie @ 25th May 2014, 1:44 PM BSTWe have two choices - lock up the people or lock up the guns.
I know which one I'd pick.
I'd say locking up people unless it's for immediate prevention of violence to anyone, including themselves is rarely a good option. And anyone who thinks predicting aberrant violent behaviour is a science, needs to watch less telly.
Banning all guns or weapons I dunno I'm not sure that works either. Perhaps if the police gave victims of domestic violence guns or maybe just mace....they'd mostly be killed by their partners with them. But you get the general idea.
Violence in the US is a complex stew of which guns no doubt have a part. But so does culture, education, a toxic approach to mental health, poverty, community disloution, laws. A big unholy mess but it's not just guns. There's too many countries with more and bigger guns owned by the public with fractional murder rates.
Did you know in Switzerland you don't even have to register your shooter.
Quote: sootyj @ 25th May 2014, 1:47 PM BSTAnd RCP is right, we can all get to quick to blame mental health on these terrible acts. All too often it's assholes, some times mentally ill assholes, but the being the asshole is the biggest factor.
It is very difficult to legislate against assholes. From a statistical point of view, if were to put together the number of legal gun owners in America and the number of firearms and then used 'gun rampages' to cross reference the figures, they'd barely make a blip on the overall numbers.
If however, you factored in mental illness with 'gun rampages', then the figures would be drastically increased.
I put 'gun rampages' in inverted commas, as guns don't actually go on rampages, people do.
Quote: Badge @ 25th May 2014, 1:52 PM BSTRenegade, just out of interest, how many people can you kill with a knife from 20 feet?
I have no idea, I've never tried. Though if I had a lot of knives and I was throwing them down from a rooftop, I imagine I could kill quite a few. I might need a few weeks of practice and set up a Just Giving account - if I'm going to all this trouble, I might as well raise some money for charity whilst I'm at it.
Quote: sootyj @ 25th May 2014, 1:53 PM BSTViolence in the US is a complex stew of which guns no doubt have a part. But so does culture, education, a toxic approach to mental health, poverty, community disloution, laws. A big unholy mess but it's not just guns. There's too many countries with more and bigger guns owned by the public with fractional murder rates.
Wow, somebody said something intelligent. I might have to re-think my BCG stereotypes.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 25th May 2014, 1:58 PM BSTWow, somebody said something intelligent. I might have to re-think my BCG stereotypes.
Wow.
I think it's a cultural thing. Owning a gun because you live in a remote area, carry money for work or travel home late at night aren't bad reasons. Nor for that matter if you're a mentally stable excopper or soldier.
But owning several assault rifles, because you saw a documentary on Barrack Obama stealing your cheese, or like playing soldier at the weekend with live ammo. Or you just don't trust young people listening to rap.
Those are lousy reasons.
Quote: Jennie @ 25th May 2014, 1:51 PM BSTCrime is motivation plus opportunity. If you cannot change the motivation, reduce the opportunity.
And they have been, the US murder rate is at it's lowest in 20 years. Though that was through tackling violent gangs in large cities, not banning a farmer from owning a shotgun.
Quote: sootyj @ 25th May 2014, 2:01 PM BST
But owning several assault rifles, because you saw a documentary on Barrack Obama stealing your cheese, or like playing soldier at the weekend with live ammo. Or you just don't trust young people listening to rap.Those are lousy reasons.
Just to be a little pedantic, your nomenclature is slightly off - it's only an 'assault' rifle if it's capable of fully automatic fire - most rifles in America are semi-automatic.