Quote: sootyj @ 15th April 2014, 9:54 PM BSTIt's about pushing towards the complex and nuanced questions, not shouting at a bogyperson that is far more shrivelled than it ever was before.
I would agree, which is why I am suggesting we don't make comparisons with other countries, ignore those who do and deal with the problems in our own country.
I'm not making comparisons, the good lady from the UN did.
I'm criticizing her observations as unhelpful especially to those who yearn for freedom outside of the UK.
Quote: sootyj @ 15th April 2014, 9:54 PM BSTOf course sexism exists, as does racism, disablism and theism.
Yes, but you are better protected under the law in the latter three.
If you called someone the N word in public, you will be prosecuted.
If you call someone a bitch in public, you won't be.
Let me give you an example.
I have attended many many football games, usually at the God's own stadium, the City Ground.
The City Ground is a very typical football stadium in many ways (excluding the divine favour).
For a fair number of these games, I have sat (or stood, naughtily) in the A Block, the most raucous section of the ground nearest the away support.
The A Block do a lot of chanting at these away fans, some of it ill advised.
They aimed a homophobic chant at the Brighton fans and the football club was fined. Rightly so.
They aimed a racist chant at the Leicester fans and the football club was fined. Rightly so.
They aimed an anti-Semitic chant at the Spurs fans and the football club was fined. Rightly so.
Every game, without fail, the A block will bring out one particular chant that gets repeated at least four or five times. It is something of a club favourite.
It is based on the fact that Nottingham has a high female to male ratio and celebrates the fact that the chanter is so fortunate as to live in a city with both Forest and a lot of beautiful women for him to enjoy.
Obviously it is a bit more succinct than that. Have the club ever been fined for that chant? Have they buggery.
Quote: Jennie @ 15th April 2014, 10:18 PM BSTI would agree, which is why I am suggesting we don't make comparisons with other countries, ignore those who do and deal with the problems in our own country.
That would be awesome and I'm all for that. Unfortunately, a UN advisor has been hoodwinked into believing that we are a pervasively sexist country - not just that - one of the worst in the world. She has made an official report and as far as the rest of the world is concerned, she is speaking gospel.
This damages our reputation abroad and makes it much for difficult for us to intervene on women's issues in other countries. Every time we protest to sexist practices abroad, they can defend themselves by saying: 'Don't tell us how to treat our women, look at the UN report on Britain'.
I don't like people spreading lies and I don't like people doing Britain down without justification. We live in one of the most fair, just, honest and liberal democracies on Earth, when this becomes undermined it's bad news for women throughout the developing world.
Quote: Jennie @ 15th April 2014, 10:24 PM BSTI have attended many many football games, usually at the God's own stadium, the City Ground.
A woman? At a football ground? I hope you were there only for the beheading of adulterers and left soon after.
Quote: Jennie @ 15th April 2014, 10:24 PM BSTYes, but you are better protected under the law in the latter three.
As for disablism, really. Do you have any idea how much the disability discrimination act kicked the ladder out from under disabled people?
I've worked with women and I've tried to help people with a variety of disabilities, jobs, fair treatment by the police amongst other things.
And I'd take being a lady over having Downes Syndrome any day of the weeks.
Purely on the basis of human rights.....and my natural sense of style.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 15th April 2014, 10:24 PM BSTThat would be awesome and I'm all for that. Unfortunately, a UN advisor has been hoodwinked into believing that we are a pervasively sexist country - not just that - one of the worst in the world. She has made an official report and as far as the rest of the world is concerned, she is speaking gospel.
This damages our reputation abroad and makes it much for difficult for us to intervene on women's issues in other countries. Every time we protest to sexist practices abroad, they can defend themselves by saying: 'Don't tell us how to treat our women, look at the UN report on Britain'.
I don't like people spreading lies and I don't like people doing Britain down without justification. We live in one of the most fair, just, honest and liberal democracies on Earth, when this becomes undermined it's bad news for women throughout the developing world.
That is a much better argument, well done you. 
I would like to read her full report to see the basis on which she justifies that assertion.
I think, sadly, you overstate our influence on the treatment of women in other jurisdictions. 
The problem is that in many of the countries you have cited, women's issues are bound up in religious and cultural practices which are far more difficult to untangle.
Quote: sootyj @ 15th April 2014, 10:28 PM BSTAs for disablism, really. Do you have any idea how much the disability discrimination act kicked the ladder out from under disabled people?
I've worked with women and I've tried to help people with a variety of disabilities, jobs, fair treatment by the police amongst other things.
And I'd take being a lady over having Downes Syndrome any day of the weeks.
Purely on the basis of human rights.....and my natural sense of style.
I don't think I know enough about disability discrimination to really comment, so I will accept what you say.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 15th April 2014, 10:27 PM BSTThat would be awesome and I'm all for that. Unfortunately, a UN advisor has been hoodwinked into believing that we are a pervasively sexist country - not just that - one of the worst in the world. She has made an official report and as far as the rest of the world is concerned, she is speaking gospel.
This damages our reputation abroad and makes it much for difficult for us to intervene on women's issues in other countries. Every time we protest to sexist practices abroad, they can defend themselves by saying: 'Don't tell us how to treat our women, look at the UN report on Britain'.
I don't like people spreading lies and I don't like people doing Britain down without justification. We live in one of the most fair, just, honest and liberal democracies on Earth, when this becomes undermined it's bad news for women throughout the developing world.
That's a more than fair critique.
Quote: Jennie @ 15th April 2014, 10:31 PM BSTThat is a much better argument, well done you.
I would like to read her full report to see the basis on which she justifies that assertion.
I think, sadly, you overstate our influence on the treatment of women in other jurisdictions.
I don't think I know enough about disability discrimination to really comment, so I will accept what you say.
About my natural sense of style I hope.
The UN has a horrible habit of only telling people off, who it thinks will listen to it.
I disagree, the Pakistani girl who was shot for reading a book was turned into a hero in this country and her message has been spread back to her homeland.
On the plus side, we can now start kicking out all the female illegals and refugees who fled here to escape rape, forced marriage, domestic abuse, etc.
'We can't let you live here, our country is too pervasively sexist and that would infringe your human rights. Here's a ticket to South Africa.'
Hang on all I said was I had a natural sense of style, implying it was so great I could dress as either gender.
And you bring up Mala? Are you suggesting the Taliban shot her, because I reckon I could rock 6 inch heels if the need arose?
That's well mean spirited at the least.
Is it me or do they look more like brother and sister, than husband and wife?
Also c'mon that's Femail, so even the Mail doesn't consider it a news story.
I'm wondering if she may have been born a man, to be honest.
Is your feminism so strong you can only disagree with a sister, if she once was a brother?
Who says I disagree with her?
My learned friend has form in this area of statement.