Historically a lot of cash strapped military units have used tampons as a bargain basement solution to gunshot trauma.
Manfacts whether you're on the blob or been shot in the gob.
Things that piss you off Page 1,441
Quote: Jennie @ 3rd April 2014, 11:54 PM BST
Then I tried to live as a woman in a predominantly male world
Women make up 52% of the population, we actually live in a predominantly female world.
Warning, sweeping generalisations ahead:
These aren't caveman times, business isn't carried out by which person can swing a club the hardest, everything runs in the most pragmatic, cost effective and practical way possible. Two things have let women down in the modern world - 1) the way they are cossetted through childhood, like a piece of decorative porcelain and 2) Their desire to have babies.
The world is a harsh place, men know this from when they are child, being physically hit by parents much more then girls, engaging in physical sports at school, getting in fights, standing up for themselves, etc. They are taught to fight, not to cry, not to give in and take everything life throws at them stoically and bravely. Whenever a man blames other, plays the victim or shirks his responsibility, he's considered worthless. If a man breaks down and cries at work after being yelled at by the boss, he might as well kill himself. It's my suspicion that more women than men become vegetarians because so very few of them have ever had to do a proper physically demanding job on a daily basis, such as brickie, furniture mover, oil rig worker, etc.
But social conditioning aside, the desire to have babies is by far the biggest problem for women in the workplace. 60% never return to their jobs after having their first child - this creates a massive disparity particularly in senior roles where continuity and experience are highly prized. Dropping out of the job market for years at a time, especially in fast moving industries such as technology is a massive mistake. If women didn't have babies, then they'd be more females in top positions and decision making roles.
If we live in a man's world, it's because that is what works best for us as a society. If it didn't, we'd soon get rid of it.
Quote: sootyj @ 3rd April 2014, 11:56 PM BSTManfacts whether you're on the blob or been shot in the gob.
Catchy!
One might say that in a world where perhaps half a percent of the population can produce more food than we need, most peoples jobs are largely pointless.
Why do we drive ourselves round the bend working ourselves to death producing, nothing, for no reason.
In a world where you don't actually work, or work 20 hours a week or whatever. Then maybe it wouldn't matter really if women and or men took weeks or years off to raise kids.
Quote: sootyj @ 4th April 2014, 12:21 AM BSTIn a world where you don't actually work, or work 20 hours a week or whatever. Then maybe it wouldn't matter really if women and or men took weeks or years off to raise kids.
In many ways, we are dictated by our animal roots - territoriality, reproduction, hunting and gathering, competition, etc., is a survival blueprint that has served us very well.
Lovely weatherproof homes full of central heating, hot and cold running water, basic sanitation, cooking and sleeping facilities didn't just happen. Women complained to men who went out and built these things, even though they were busy trying to bring home some lovely Mammoth for dinner.
It's neither a Western patriarchy thing or a construct of the modern world - if you go to the farthest reaches of the planet and observe tribes people who live in the most pragmatic way possible because of their harsh environment, there are striking similarities - men hunt, women cook and raise babies, old people are euthanized. Land and territory is guarded fiercely because the tribe next door wants a better life for their children - hence why we have war.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 4th April 2014, 12:15 AM BSTeverything runs in the most pragmatic, cost effective and practical way possible.
If we were that evolved, our government and public institutions would be run that way. The senior civil service, the court system etc attracts some of the brightest minds in the country. Which they are not.
The world runs in the way that works the best for the people at the top. Which as you point out, are usually men. Usually white men and usually fairly wealthy white men. That's why everyone else gets shat on.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 4th April 2014, 12:15 AM BSTThe world is a harsh place, men know this from when they are child, being physically hit by parents much more then girls, engaging in physical sports at school, getting in fights, standing up for themselves, etc. They are taught to fight, not to cry, not to give in and take everything life throws at them stoically and bravely. Whenever a man blames other, plays the victim or shirks his responsibility, he's considered worthless. If a man breaks down and cries at work after being yelled at by the boss, he might as well kill himself. It's my suspicion that more women than men become vegetarians because so very few of them have ever had to do a proper physically demanding job on a daily basis, such as brickie, furniture mover, oil rig worker, etc.
But isn't that based on the premise that those are the skills that are most valued in this world? Who decides that being gruff and tough and macho is the way to get on in this life...men!
Generally (I underline that) women are far more relational and emotionally intelligent. They are better at negotiation and more flexible. They may not be as physically strong but they often have far more emotional strength and resilience. That's why we don't commit suicide as much.
This is valuable currency, but only if it is recognised as such. Which it isn't by the patriarchy.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 4th April 2014, 12:15 AM BSTBut social conditioning aside, the desire to have babies is by far the biggest problem for women in the workplace. 60% never return to their jobs after having their first child - this creates a massive disparity particularly in senior roles where continuity and experience are highly prized. Dropping out of the job market for years at a time, especially in fast moving industries such as technology is a massive mistake. If women didn't have babies, then they'd be more females in top positions and decision making roles.
I absolutely agree with that problem - but I come at it from a different direction. Women desire to have babies. That is true. We are genetically built that way.
The difference we have is in the solution. You see the solution as women to simply stop having babies. Difficulty is that if we didn't, no other bugger would. Then we get an aging population blah blah blah.
My solution is increased workplace flexibility for working mothers. Women shouldn't have to change what is a natural biological process. They shouldn't have to masculinise themselves by not getting pregnant.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 4th April 2014, 12:15 AM BSTIf we live in a man's world, it's because that is what works best for us as a society. If it didn't, we'd soon get rid of it.
No, it is what works best for the men in charge. They've been there in one guise or another for all of human history and they are bloody difficult to displace. We're getting there though. We're only 100 years into the fight and we've done pretty well so far.
More and more women are moving into medicine at all levels.
If the current macho maximise hour working ethic continues in health which prejudices against women returning after having kids, then in a generation we're going to have a serious shortfall in medics.
I think changing the culture is pretty urgent.
Also one might say the ultimate man's world is Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia.
I wouldn't say Denmark or Holland are men's worlds but they're a lot more equal.
I know which ones I'd prefer to live in.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 4th April 2014, 12:15 AM BSTWhenever a man blames other, plays the victim or shirks his responsibility, he's considered worthless.
Might just be the type of job I do, but I have met many men who are the absolute masters of this exactly this type of behaviour. If men didn't shirk their responsibilities, we wouldn't need the CSA.
Of course, many women are too - but I don't think you can say that women are especially prone to this.
Quote: sootyj @ 4th April 2014, 12:41 AM BSTMore and more women are moving into medicine at all levels.
If the current macho maximise hour working ethic continues in health which prejudices against women returning after having kids, then in a generation we're going to have a serious shortfall in medics.
I think changing the culture is pretty urgent.
Also one might say the ultimate man's world is Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia.
I wouldn't say Denmark or Holland are men's worlds but they're a lot more equal.
I know which ones I'd prefer to live in.
Good point Soots.
Okay, a lot of points to go through, apologies if I miss a few -
The White Male Patriarchy has created the world we all live in now - all of the technology, medical advances, human rights, laws, democratic governments, etc., etc.
Why has it been able to do this? For the very reasons you stated previously, our competitive, macho attitudes and desire to provide a better life for our children. We can also organise effectively, adapt quickly, hunt in packs and observe the hierarchal process.
The reason that other skills aren't prized quite as highly is self evident. In a post-apocalyptic scenario, who is more valuable - a medical doctor or a marriage guidance counsellor? There is a hierarchy at play and it exists for wholly practical reasons.
Flexible working hours are only good for those at the bottom - shareholders, investors, other board members do not want a part time chairperson or a job sharing CEO. They want a person who will make the company successful and earn them the most money. This is more often a man then a woman for the baby reasons I gave before.
I never suggested that women should give up their desire to have babies, just the consequences of doing so. You are suggesting that we give up a massively successful and proven system to benefit the career prospects of 40% of working women. I don't think that'll fly.
Also the mans world is an efficent one is so ridiculous.
We're a post industrial society, where the ability to carry heavy weights, shoot bears or hit things hard are rather overrated.
Focussing, collaborating and multi tasking are far more important in almost any meaningful job these days.
Are women better at these things who knows, I think there's a lot of pseudo science about masculine/feminine skills on both sides of the fence.
Quote: Jennie @ 4th April 2014, 12:45 AM BSTOf course, many women are too - but I don't think you can say that women are especially prone to this.
Well I've never flirted my way out of a 'missing' train ticket. I've never pulled the 'women's problems' excuse when I was late for work. I've never withheld sex to get my own way. I've never tried to win an argument or get a reduced sentence by crying. And I certainly never blame half of the population for my lack of career advancement. (that's what foreigns are for)
Men and women have different skills, face different hardships and receive different benefits from society. From retirement age, to longevity, to child custody and free drinks, some things stack up for one gender more then another. But in order to have these advantages, you have to take the disadvantages as well.
Surely the reason for male dominance in early society was physical strength and aggression. In our early, more animalistic form this would undoubtedly be the more valued asset.
But we evolved, and suddenly brute force alone wasn't the overriding objective. Brains, adaptability, organisation and resilience were also required.
Now on those areas, women are just as good as men. Problem was, by the time we got to that stage the grip of male dominance was in full flow. Women were kept at home raising kids and submitting to their husbands. (Yes, I'm looking at you, religions).
Of course a medical doctor is more valuable than a marriage counsellor in a post-apocalyptic scenario - but we don't live in one of those. We live in a world where marriage guidance has the potential to save a lot of a pain and suffering, to increase cohesiveness in our society and provide decent foundations for our children.
There are women in senior positions in business who meet their childcare commitments and the demands of their job. There was one on Woman's Hour a few weeks ago - she would get into work after taking her kids to school, leave early to pick her kids up from school, put them to bed then work late into the night. Amazing.
Increased flexibility in the workplace wouldn't mean that less is demanded of women, simply that allowances are made to allow them to meet their different responsibilities.
Fortunately, things are starting to go that way. Why should we accept that having babies means you must wave your career goodbye? Let's dream big and find another way.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 4th April 2014, 12:54 AM BSTWell I've never flirted my way out of a 'missing' train ticket. I've never pulled the 'women's problems' excuse when I was late for work. I've never withheld sex to get my own way. I've never tried to win an argument or get a reduced sentence by crying.
Why not, I mean if the lingua franca is now using emotional skills in the workplace and it works why not.
For what it's worth when I was in management I've known men and women equally to either shout or cry to get their own way.
Every now and then your posts read like you don't actually now any real people.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 4th April 2014, 12:54 AM BSTWell I've never flirted my way out of a 'missing' train ticket. I've never pulled the 'women's problems' excuse when I was late for work. I've never withheld sex to get my own way. I've never tried to win an argument or get a reduced sentence by crying. And I certainly never blame half of the population for my lack of career advancement. (that's what foreigns are for)
Neither have I - wish I could. Nearly ended up at Croydon Magistrates' Court last year after a little Oyster Card mix up.
Men do flirt to advance their interests. As Caitlin Moran puts it:
"Ladies, we are at a massive disadvantage in the workplace. Your male peers are flirting with their male bosses constantly. The average workplace is like f*cking Bromancing the Stone. That's basically what male bonding is. Flirting. They're flirting with each other playing golf, they're flirting with each other going to the football, they're flirting with each other chatting at the urinals - and, sadly, flirting with each other in after-hours visits to strip clubs and pubs. They are bonding with each other over their biological similarities. If the only way you can bond with them is over you biological differences, you go for it. Feel pressurised to actually f*ck them if you do? Then don't flirt. Find it an easy way to just crack on? Then crack on - and don't blame other women for doing it."
Quote: sootyj @ 4th April 2014, 12:50 AM BSTAlso the mans world is an efficent one is so ridiculous.
Please provide evidence to the contrary. Show me a 'woman's world', a society led by women that is prosperous and successful.
This conspiracy theory that men are holding women back is bullcrap in the First World. As you've stated, it's the 21st century, why aren't there more women in leadership positions?
'Oh no, we are all victims of evil white men' - way to eschew responsibility and play the victim.
That unfortunately just convinces me that Caitlin Moran really hasn't written anything worth reading in ages.
It's just a gender swopped version of those weird adolesent fantasies most guys have about all ladies being lesbians.
Except shrill and not even sexy.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 4th April 2014, 1:06 AM BSTPlease provide evidence to the contrary. Show me a 'woman's world', a society led by women that is prosperous and successful.
This conspiracy theory that men are holding women back is bullcrap in the First World. As you've stated, it's the 21st century, why aren't there more women in leadership positions?
'Oh no, we are all victims of evil white men' - way to eschew responsibility and play the victim.
Because we're living through evoloution homes and like I say there is no women's world, we're heading towards balance not revolution.
I dunno visit Netherlands or Denmark or any of the jobs I've had female dominated industries.
As for leadership, glass ceiling takes a long time for things to change.
A couple of centuries ago, who'd have thought you could be a leader if you didn't believe in Jesus.