British Comedy Guide

Unacceptable humour.

Was reading through some posts on different threads, and this keeps coming up as a subject. Then read interesting stuff on current Ipswich murders, in Guardian, and the Sun.

The thing that disturbs me, is that the prositutes were seen as fair game, acceptable victims, and may have contributed to difficulty in investigating thier deaths. I can't help but feel that when we label one subject kosher for mick taking, prositutes, serial killers etc. But others not abducted children, and terminal diseases, then we allow the kosher target to be targetted more readily, and easily. As such by being selective, we are infact contributing to bullying, and stigmatising. The time I really losr respect for people like Manning, is when thye preach on how they lay off the dsiabled, but pick on Blacks. Like thats ok.

The problem is also there is very little comedy that doesn't have target. I love the Two Ronnies, but beneath their avuncular, clean style of wit, was alot of racsim, classism, and sexism.

Certainly I think one of the most important things in nay free society, is to expect to be offended. It's precisley when some one is acting up, being offensice, misbehaving that we should spring to their defence. As that is the point that the rights we tkae for granted are in danger. It's also impossible to not offend some people, some of the time. I help people with learning disabilties, so I get a little tweaked when GWB is called learning disabled, none of my clients started near genocidal wars for oil.

After this very long, post, for which i expect to be roundly mocked, masochist that I am, a joke for your patience.

A packet of chewing gum mug me last night, I gave him my wallet.

He was menthol.

I think the prostitutes were seen as fair game by the Beeb constantly refering to five prostitutes instead of just five women.

Unfortunately, the murder of prostitutes not being treated as seriously as say, the murder of a dinnerlady, has been a problem for a long time. Back in the seventies Peter Sutcliffe was able to get away with his crimes for so long for just that reason (and I believe they only caught him by accident, not through dilligent police work).

Although I'm against censorship, I don't like it when the weak and vulnerable become targets of humour, and prefer it when "humourists" pick harder targets.

I also dislike the current "cake and eat it" style of comedy as personified by Ricky Gervais, who gets away with mocking the disabled (or mongloids, as they were called in Extras) on the basis that he's really showing us how insensitive and ignorant a "character" is.

I largely agree with sootyj's sentiments. No one should be above mocking. Everyone and everything is fair game IMO. Not sure I really get the classism point though. Most of modern comedy seems to be at the expensive of anyone who is seen as trying to better themselves, votes Conservative, is "upper class", or has money.

And I also agree with chipolata on that last point. The worst part is that most of the people who bum-love Gervais are the same people who would happily hack Johnny Speight to death.

Quote: Aaron @ February 22, 2008, 10:37 AM

bum-love Gervais

What an alarming image! That's my appetite ruined for the day.

Quote: Aaron @ February 22, 2008, 10:37 AM

And I also agree with chipolata on that last point. The worst part is that most of the people who bum-love Gervais are the same people who would happily hack Johnny Speight to death.

Didn't we both agree, on a different thread, that mocking people who do that is a a better way of educating people that its wrong to do so as opposed to pretending that it doesn't exist, thus (look at me!), not eliminating the problem.

Sometimes people don't get who the targets are in certain jokes as they are too consumed by the use of a prejudice. I always remember a Jonathan Ross joke about Heather Mills where he says (paraphrases) 'she lies so much she pwobabwe has two legs!' The disabled community went mad over it but the joke is about the extent to which she would lie about something not her actual disability. The target is her, its not saying 'all disabled people lie.'

Quote: ContainsNuts @ February 22, 2008, 10:51 AM

Didn't we both agree, on a different thread, that mocking people who do that is a a better way of educating people that its wrong to do so as opposed to pretending that it doesn't exist, thus (look at me!), not eliminating the problem.

Quite probably. Like I said, everything is game in my book. :)

Quote: Aaron @ February 22, 2008, 11:13 AM

Quite probably. Like I said, everything is game in my book. :)

Sounds like a cookery book?

Quote: Griff @ February 22, 2008, 11:19 AM

Jimmy Carr (no stranger to the offensive gag) talks about this in his excellent book The Naked Jape. In summary, he says that "if you have to look around at who's in the audience before telling a joke, don't tell it". (Advice Jim Davidson could have learned from before slagging off the disabled people in the front row of his show.)

Oh believe me, he's gone over more lines than Amy Winehouse!

Quote: ContainsNuts @ February 22, 2008, 10:51 AM

Didn't we both agree, on a different thread, that mocking people who do that is a a better way of educating people that its wrong to do so as opposed to pretending that it doesn't exist, thus (look at me!), not eliminating the problem.

I'm not sure how much that works in the case of people like RG. In Extra's he was supposed to be a likable chap (at least in the first season) so when he has a dig at the disabled girl (while dressed as a Nazi) are we suppose to laugh at him? I suppose he'd say we are but i'm pretty sure many more people would be laughing at his joke. It's comedy on a par with the sort of people who add "no offence" to everything they say that's is offensive!

Quote: Griff @ February 22, 2008, 11:19 AM

Jimmy Carr (no stranger to the offensive gag) talks about this in his excellent book The Naked Jape.

I think he gets away with it because he's more honest about it - he just says a jokes a joke and if its funny he tells it. RG and co seem to think they can be less funny but still get away with it because its not the joke we are supposed to laugh at but the person making it.

Quote: M Lewis @ February 22, 2008, 11:27 AM

I'm not sure how much that works in the case of people like RG. In Extra's he was supposed to be a likable chap (at least in the first season) so when he has a dig at the disabled girl (while dressed as a Nazi) are we suppose to laugh at him? I suppose he'd say we are but i'm pretty sure many more people would be laughing at his joke. It's comedy on a par with the sort of people who add "no offence" to everything they say that's is offensive!

Well all RG's characters (yes all two of them) are supposed to be flawed by embarrassing themselves on regular occasions. In the situation you speak of the humour derives from the worst thing that can possibly said at that moment and, whilst I can't speak for anyone else, I laughed at how embarrassed he must have felt. Which is what the joke is. I think he says about the MS girl 'Cor... she looks like she's had a skin-full' which isn't exactly Billy Connelly so I don't think you were supposed to laugh with him. Also its clear his character didn't know she was disabled, making it worse.

Quote: M Lewis @ February 22, 2008, 11:27 AM

I think he gets away with it because he's more honest about it - he just says a jokes a joke and if its funny he tells it. RG and co seem to think they can be less funny but still get away with it because its not the joke we are supposed to laugh at but the person making it.

Actually in the book he does say you should know your audience, so I don't think he believes that. Also, in general that's not a good philosophy. Some people find jokes funny because they are about prejudices they have ie racism.

I watched the clip of Sir Roderick Spratt, and he uses the word bleeding. Now the interesting thing is I just read a US WW2 guide for service men in the UK. Where it made it quite clear, that uses the word bloody, or bleeding was so offensive in the UK it could lead to riots. Also much as I love Round the Horn, when it was written Kenneth Williams was joking about his enjoying committing a crime that could get him 5 years in prison. Time heals wounds, and changes opinions what is offensive and bad is tomorrow, laughable and ridiculous.

Also on Maddy jokes, and other such badness. Kids don't listen to their teachers, I sure as hell never did. They do listen to jokes, and rumours, and nasty crap. Could the humble, nasty old playground joke be the perfect conduit for disseminating good advice about stranger danger?

Also obsessing on child abuse, blinds us to other crimes of equal magnitude. The elderly and frail are far more often the victims of sexual/ physical abuse than kids. By using humour to deflate one issue, not only does it make it easier to discuss it, but allows us to move onto other areas of concern.

I agree with you SootyJ and Bushbaby also makes an excellent point. Our largest murder case in history was similar to this case called now known as the Pickton murders. They were all against sex trade workers and again they were constantly pointed out as so until recently. I remember one person had asked if these murders were committed against upper class women how quicker this case would have been solved or treated better. I think that person made a good point.
While it's your right to say whatever you want about anything you want it is morally wrong considering the circumstances and the family's involved. That's just my opinion though. http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/pickton/

I read about that, the nutcase was feeding them to his pigs wasn't he?

Also 500 kids disapeared in London last year, who didn't get 24 hour rolling coverage. Infact pretty much none, care to guess the ethnicity, and social background of most of them?

Quote: bushbaby @ February 22, 2008, 10:17 AM

I think the prostitutes were seen as fair game by the Beeb constantly refering to five prostitutes instead of just five women.

Good point.

P.S. Who the heck's Johnny Speight, Aaron?

Alf Garnett, you silly moo.

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