Quote: faceless @ 2nd March 2014, 9:18 PM GMTIt's not nationalism to hate the bigotry and intolerance that UKIP members push on a daily basis. It's common decency.
Before all of this gets greyed out for being off topic - which one of UKIP's policies do think is the most bigoted and intolerant?
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 2nd March 2014, 4:50 PM GMTBy telling me the Scottish electorate would never vote for a 'Little Englander' and that voting for any kind of English nationalist makes you 'sub-EDL'. Would you call people who vote Scottish Nationalist 'sub-EDL'? By endorsing or celebrating one form of nationalism and castigating the other - even though they are both nationalists makes your statements ironic.
Listen to the purist voice of the SNP...
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 2nd March 2014, 10:41 PM GMTBefore all of this gets greyed out for being off topic - which one of UKIP's policies do think is the most bigoted and intolerant?
You should stick to what I actually said, rather than what you wish I'd said.
UKIP members and supporters are foul bigots. Here's one example from Saturday, you can find countless others if you look (though it's pretty clear that you don't care, or support their attitudes)
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/inside-ukips-spring-conference-racist-3197692
Quite serendipitously the story brings the subject back to comedy. In as much as its about the delegates apparently loving the racist shit that some 'comedian' peddled out for them.
Here's a video of the 'comedian' in action. "Is this on?". First joke about immigrants having "funny names" at about 2 minutes. Gah.
Racism is bad.
There, I've said it.
Quote: T.W. @ 3rd March 2014, 10:59 AM GMTRacism is bad.
There, I've said it.
Does it matter if you're black or white.
Quote: faceless @ 3rd March 2014, 1:34 AM GMTYou should stick to what I actually said, rather than what you wish I'd said.
UKIP members and supporters are foul bigots.
I'll be voting UKIP because they appeal to my libertarian values and the other parties have nothing to offer me, though I don't consider myself a foul bigot.
You putting up examples of the non-stop media hate fest against UKIP and not answering my question about policies pretty much tells me the extent of your political leanings. I prefer facts to opinions, especially if those opinions have been pre-determined by a corrupt, biased press or an old fashioned notion of dogmatically voting for the same party time after time.
UKIP have done more to wipe out far right extremist parties in the Britain than the Anti-Fascist League and legislation combined. At the recent Wythenshawe elections, both Labour and the BNP harassed UKIP candidates. And when Farage visited Edinburgh last year, we saw the Scottish brand of democracy in action, I would best describe it as 'sub-EDL'.
By all means, criticise UKIP but try to stick to the issues and policies and not the media side show. I don't brand all Labour / Tory / Lib Dem / SNP politicians as self serving, greedy, lying, thieving, sex pests despite the number of arrests and inquiries surrounding some of their MPs and councillors.
Quote: T.W. @ 3rd March 2014, 10:59 AM GMTRacism is bad.
There, I've said it.
Thank God someone has had the bravery to speak out. You're like my hero and shit. 
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 3rd March 2014, 11:59 AM GMTI'll be voting UKIP because they appeal to my libertarian values and the other parties have nothing to offer me
That's disappointing. And a bit sad that you identify your own welfare as the principal spur in your voting choice.
I can see how the beer-and-a-fag aspect of the party would appeal to you - it appeals to me - but leaving the EU would mean your working hours will go up and your working conditions will go down. It's the main reason the the right want out, so they can make business 'more competitive', which always means lowering wages below executive level and lengthening the working day/making the workplace less safe.
Quote: Godot Taxis @ 3rd March 2014, 12:47 PM GMTThat's disappointing. And a bit sad that you identify your own welfare as the principal spur in your voting choice.
I can see how the beer-and-a-fag aspect of the party would appeal to you - it appeals to me - but leaving the EU would mean your working hours will go up and your working conditions will go down. It's the main reason the the right want out, so they can make business 'more competitive', which always means lowering wages below executive level and lengthening the working day/making the workplace less safe.
They smoke and drink? They've lost my vote.
I think I might be racist because none of my best friends are black.
Quote: Godot Taxis @ 3rd March 2014, 12:47 PM GMTThat's disappointing. And a bit sad that you identify your own welfare as the principal spur in your voting choice.
Why is that disappointing? I'm choosing the government I'd like to have, the one that works for me and not the other way around. I have no desire to sacrifice myself for 'the greater good', neither do I think it's a great idea to only subscribe to one political philosophy, otherwise democracy is a bit of a farce.
Even though Ed Miliband is less popular than scurvy, there will be loads of people voting for him just because they want to get rid of the Tories. What's the principal spur in that voting choice?
I just want to vote for a party that doesn't want to ban things all the time - whether it's fox hunting, smoking or the Internet - though the fox hunting ban had exactly zero impact on my life, it was a populist policy that appealed to the electorate. I wonder where UKIP get their ideas from?
Finally, would you level the same accusation at those wanting Scottish Independence, that they're identifying their own welfare as the principal spur for their voting choice?
UKIP's policies;
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/mar/07/ukip-policies-manifesto-commitments
My question would be "Where is the money going to come from?"
Part of their defence policy is to buy 3 new aircraft carriers, at the moment we have two on order, which are massively over budget and, in fact, one of which will, most likely, be immediately mothballed as we can't afford it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24801942
They also want to buy an extra 50 Lightning fighter jets at £150M+ per aircraft.
Still, at least they don't want to curb tax paying immigrants who contribute more to the UK economy than UK nationals...Oh...
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/11/04/uk-immigration-_n_4212431.html
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 3rd March 2014, 1:59 PM GMTI just want to vote for a party that doesn't want to ban things all the time - whether it's fox hunting, smoking or the Internet - though the fox hunting ban had exactly zero impact on my life, it was a populist policy that appealed to the electorate. I wonder where UKIP get their ideas from?
Yes, because UKIP don't want to ban things like smoking, which saves lives and money, they just want to ban things like wind farms, alternative energy technologies, skilled immigrants, publically funded doctors' surgeries, etc, etc, you know, things which have no real impact on our lives... 
Quote: Tony Cowards @ 3rd March 2014, 2:36 PM GMTban things like wind farms, alternative energy technologies, skilled immigrants, publically funded doctors surgeries, etc, etc, you know, things which have no real impact on our lives...
Wind farms are inefficient and we still have to buy loads of energy from abroad. UKIP do not want to ban skilled immigrants, they want to ban unskilled immigrants - the kind who work for less then minimum wage.
The Tories said they were going to get immigration levels down to the tens of thousands, last count it was over 200,000.
Quote: Tony Cowards @ 3rd March 2014, 2:36 PM GMTStill, at least they don't want to curb tax paying immigrants who contribute more to the UK economy than UK nationals...Oh...
When 1 in 8 prisoners are non-UK born and 1 in 4 council homes go to people who are non-UK born, the amount of tax being brought in is offset.
Quote: Tony Cowards @ 3rd March 2014, 2:36 PM GMTMy question would be "Where is the money going to come from?"
Not paying Europe, cutting overseas aid budget, spending less on government bureaucracy, having to spend less NHS money on newly arrived immigrants, scrapping green taxes, income from fracking, reclamation of our fishing grounds, etc.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 3rd March 2014, 3:11 PM GMTNot paying Europe, cutting overseas aid budget, spending less on government bureaucracy, having to spend less NHS money on newly arrived immigrants, scrapping green taxes, income from fracking, reclamation of our fishing grounds, etc.
The Overseas Aid budget is in the hundreds of millions, chicken feed in Government terms, government bureaucracy is being cut although if you are going to increase defence spending by 40% (as UKIP say they will) then I'm guessing that a LOT of money will be wasted on defence projects (look at the history of these things, they ALWAYS cost a lot more than they should).
Scrapping green taxes? Not sure how scrapping a tax brings in money for the Government.
Income from fracking? I may be wrong but this seems as much as a gamble as income from green energy.
Reclamation of our fishing grounds? Well I can't see that bringing in billions of pounds.
As for pulling out of Europe, would that really save us much money? I don't really know but there are certainly arguments for and against.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20448450
So, as far as I can see it there's no clear way that UKIP would be able to raise the money to implement their policies.
I thought Stewart Lee was quite funny
But I had started watching the Lincoln Lawyer which I was enjoying so I only watched a little bit of Stewart.
I was going to watch him on iPlayer but there was a Canadian documentary from 1984 on nuclear war.
I will get around to watching him, when there's less enticing competition.
A very interesting discussion on UKIP and immigration, but not for this thread. Let's move over to the General Discussion forum if you'd like to continue the debate please, chaps. 
Went to see his 3 hour comedy marathon at the Royal Festival Hall recently where he more or less performed all six shows of this new series. He's not everyone's cup of tea, but as the American man says in Fawlty Towers in answer to Basil's criticism of the author Harold Robbins, "we like him".
