Stand up comedy courses, waste of time/money? Page 2

Quote: NateSean @ 31st January 2014, 1:34 PM GMT

It's different for everyone. In my case, the course a gift from someone else, so technically I didn't waste any money. But what has motivated me to keep going back to the open mics and to keep working on new material is the knowledge that I will have wasted that person's gift if I don't.

The teacher was Amy Tee and I did my research long before the first class, checking out her YouTube presence, etc. And the fact that she had been doing this for ten years and that she made me laugh in those videos was enough to make me feel like she could really teach me something.

She's really gone above and beyond and I think it helped that there were only two other students by the third week of the class. She impressed upon us how much hard work went into stand up comedy. How there was a difference between "Someone whose funny at a family barbecue" and "Someone who could do comedy for a living". She also impressed upon us the importance of not allowing the "graduation night" to cloud our judgment by assuming that every night would be like that.

It's all down to personal experience. At the moment, I'm the only one from that class actively working on my writing. Will that lead to something? Who knows.

View original

No offence the more you describe this course the worse it sounds.

You mentioned before her telling you to dump a joke, that was actually not bad.

And now she lost all but 2 of the people on the course.

You make the course sound like Jeffrey Dahmers guide to making friends with black guys, through vegetarianism.

You might want to try some better books or courses.

Quote: Shandonbelle @ 31st January 2014, 1:56 PM GMT

Last man standing as it were?

That's a very interesting perspective Nate, and telling that so many people dropped out, I guess it was proven as the course went on that it's not at all as easy as it looks. I know it's hard work from reading threads on here and the very idea terrifies me...are you going to concentrate on stand-up now?

View original

Well a course will allow you to get your first sucky attempts out of the way infront of a supportive group.

That and when you do it, it's quite fun.

Go for it.

I keep meaning to do another course.

Quote: NateSean @ 31st January 2014, 1:34 PM GMT

She's really gone above and beyond and I think it helped that there were only two other students by the third week of the class. She impressed upon us how much hard work went into stand up comedy. How there was a difference between "Someone whose funny at a family barbecue" and "Someone who could do comedy for a living". She also impressed upon us the importance of not allowing the "graduation night" to cloud our judgment by assuming that every night would be like that.

View original

You don't think that is good advice? Obviously I would hope she elaborated on this and a lot of course content is probably common sense but sounds like ok advice to me. Losing all but two people I'd have put down to peoples expectations being out of sync with what stand up is actually involves.

Quote: sootyj @ 31st January 2014, 2:02 PM GMT

Well a course will allow you to get your first sucky attempts out of the way infront of a supportive group.

View original

Nobody said I was going on stage Soots, don't try and make me.

Quote: Shandonbelle @ 31st January 2014, 1:56 PM GMT

Last man standing as it were?

That's a very interesting perspective Nate, and telling that so many people dropped out, I guess it was proven as the course went on that it's not at all as easy as it looks. I know it's hard work from reading threads on here and the very idea terrifies me...are you going to concentrate on stand-up now?

View original

I'm not sure it's that telling, on most comedy courses there's only a percentage of people who actually want to get into comedy, a lot of the people want to get confidence for public speaking, perhaps as part of their job, or are doing it as someone might learn to snowboard (i.e. to get some thrills but not, necessarily become a professional snowboarder) or even just as a social thing, to meet people and have a laugh.

Have you ever been on one Tony? Good to hear you say that it isn't necessarily just for people trying to break into stand-up as I was sort of viewing it as just to try something comedy related out of my comfort zone.
Think I may book up before I lose my nerve!

Yes, I did the Amused Moose courses with Logan Murray, both the Beginners and the Intermediate one (with Josh Widdicombe!) and, especially on the Beginners course, there were loads of people (I'd say about 50-60%) who were doing it for other reasons than wanting to become actual stand ups.

Quote: sootyj @ 31st January 2014, 2:02 PM GMT

You might want to try some better books or courses.

View original

Well like with any class or book, you pick what works for you. I felt my experience was a positive one over all. Yes, being told to drop certain jokes was annoying. But I think for the most part she was doing what she was being paid to do in her capacity as a teacher and teachers are prone to finding things wrong with their student's work.

Experience is going to be the real teacher in the end. And I know myself well enough to say that I wouldn't have had the confidence before taking and completing the class.

Quote: Shandonbelle @ 31st January 2014, 1:56 PM GMT

...are you going to concentrate on stand-up now?

View original

Yeah, I think that's pretty much the plan. If nothing else, doing the open mics is very therapeutic for me. The week or so after an open mic, I'm not as stressed or as overworked and it makes me a much more pleasant person to deal with at work.

It's a creative art and the best part of living near Boston is that there's no shortage of places to try it out. I'll see where it takes me. If I get to the point where someone wants to give me money for the ideas in my head, bonus.

Glad it worked for you, there's some right chancers taking standup courses though.

It's like the willingness to stand up on stage and tell some jokes no more makes you a standup, then throwing a brick at a cow makes you a matiador.

You may find yourself being funnier than your tutor faster than you think.

Also good plan on sticking with standup, it's about the most reliable way of making money in comedy.

Here's a very interesting take on stand up courses from Doug Stanhope that probably won't help.

http://www.dougstanhope.com/journal/2010/7/12/comedy-death-camp.html

Entertaining article but not really appropriate to the UK.
Most UK courses are run by working comics, cost a lot less and make no big promises.
So please don't let that article put you off.
The failing I find with some courses is they teach stage craft, but they don't teach gag writing and more importantly gag linking and story telling.

Quote: sootyj @ 4th February 2014, 1:13 AM GMT

Entertaining article but not really appropriate to the UK.
Most UK courses are run by working comics, cost a lot less and make no big promises.

View original

Sooty speaketh the truth.

The failing I find with some courses is they teach stage craft, but they don't teach gag writing and more importantly gag linking and story telling.

But why teach gag writing when you can point students to something like Sally Holloway's book ( http://www.amazon.co.uk/Serious-Guide-Joke-Writing-Something-ebook/dp/B005H3MY5Y/ref=la_B004CRKZSY_1_1 ) and then let the students come back if they have any questions or difficulties?

In my opinion, joke writing can be taught from a book easier than stagecraft.

Many fledgling comedians who die have some decent jokes, but seriously lack skills or confidence to deliver them.

I did a course and if I recall correctly there was some discussion of finding inspiration and a good amount of feedback to your routine.

It's still the case that I think courses can be great for:
+ Giving you the nudge to actually do something about that niggling idea you want to try stand-up.
+ Learning the basics of stand-up stagecraft.
+ Getting you a small circle/support group of fellow beginning comedians.
+ Giving a friendly environment to try material (and try types of material)*.
+ Getting info about websites/open-mic nights/forums etc
+ Getting your first gig in front of an audience that isn't just fellow students and tutors**.

Okay, some people starting comedy may have/know a lot of those things (or think they do). I didn't, and the course was invaluable.

* I always had the idea that the pro stand-up who ran the course I was on didn't like the fact that I did a brand new set every single week. Often in a completely new style. They liked to see the students refine a set and get better over time. I actually thought it far more valuable for me to explore different types of comedy, as who knows which might 'click' with me until I tried them - and trying them in a course was an ideal way in my mind.

** By the time the end of course gig came I, and at least 1 other, had already had gigs off our own backs. But if you're still too nervous, or facing long waiting lists, then the showcase gig is a start.

By the way, IIRC this thread mentioned people doing courses and not wanting to go into stand-up (and possibly longevity past the course).

On my course there were 8 people. I know that 4 or 5 still gig now, some 3 years+ after the course ended. One person never wanted to do stand-up past 'personal development', one did a few gigs which put them off and one was returning to comedy after a stint in the 80s, and I last saw about 18months ago, but I don't know if they're still going.

The course runs 3 times a year (possibly 4). As far as I know the one I did was quite exceptional for having at least 50% still doing comedy. I know of several of the classes since where only two or three (of eight) have seemed to actively pursue gigs after the course. And I now a few others who did the course but knew they probably didn't want to pursue stand-up longterm.

Interestingly (to me) the course I was in was also quite an old group for beginners. I think that all but one were 27/28+ and had been working for sometime. I suspect that this helped with longevity - none of us were students doing it on a whim thinking we'd be on TV in 6-12 months (and I have seriously lost track of how many young beginners I've met who had that attitude).

Actually the Doug Stanhope illustrates something that puzzled me in the world of freelance writing. And that's bidding for a job and suddenly finding ones self up against US writers, with apparently unbelievable pro credits, with broadcast stuff and major gigs etc.
Who then come in and low ball bids and when you check out their actual samples of writing, it's usually poor.
Is it just more acceptable to buy stage time or sell access in the US. If that's the case then I prefer the UK approach.

Quote: sootyj @ 6th February 2014, 12:48 AM GMT

Actually the Doug Stanhope illustrates something that puzzled me in the world of freelance writing. And that's bidding for a job and suddenly finding ones self up against US writers, with apparently unbelievable pro credits, with broadcast stuff and major gigs etc.
Who then come in and low ball bids and when you check out their actual samples of writing, it's usually poor.
Is it just more acceptable to buy stage time or sell access in the US. If that's the case then I prefer the UK approach.

View original

Not entirely sure what you mean Sootyj, but I do know that "Pay-to-Play" (i.e. comedians paying for stage time) is much more common in the US (especially New York, I believe) than the UK (apart, of course, from the ultimate "Pay-to-Play" that is the Edinburgh Festival).

Sorry I mean in the Doug Stanhope article he writes about super expensive courses in the thousands of dollars. Where you get lots of networking and stage time.

Where as in the UK you're guaranteed a showcase at best and 400 pounds is pretty much the ceiling, unless youre doing a Uni course.

Practice makes perfect, there is no general rule of thumb, I've seen a variety of acts who are funny for different reasons I've seen poor acts who were so bad it was funny, this stuff can't be taught but it can be learned by putting your self out to the lions. Establishments are always set up to make money out of trend, I mean there are now courses in foraging I mean WTF you go out and pick things up and eat them without 10 second rules, I blame London tho it has courses for everything but not one that shows people to walk on the f'ing left!!

Thouse courses are awful I collected alot of useless policies, right wing loonies and racism.
Turns out I'd been NIGEL FARRAGING!!!!