Singe the unbeliever, singe him mildly.
Things that piss you off Page 1,340
It doesn't have to just have an effect in this country - nice, sweet, reasonable, moderate Catholics in this country allow for the extremes in other countries.
But in this country we have religious schools that grossly misinform children, religious organisations that get tax breaks just 'cos, the exclusion of women and gay people from roles within those supposedly modern and moderate religious organisations, individual believers whose lives are consumed by guilt and the fear of divine punishment, individuals denying themselves and their families the lives they should naturally have because of bronze age mythology, people who commit murders on the basis of their religious faith. The negative effects of religion are massive, and don't think it's ok to say "Yeah, but most people like their religion and we should leave them alone" because nobody's religion is completely isolated and without impact on others.
Quote: Tursiops @ 17th December 2013, 11:08 PM GMTPerhaps you would care to tell us how you are currently being oppressed by religion? I cannot say that I find being a non-believer any inconvenience.
I, personally, don't have to be oppressed by religion in order to be aware that there are plenty of people who are being oppressed by religion. If everyone only kicked up a fuss about things that personally effected them plenty of the things that are thankfully things of the past would still be going strong.
Quote: Harridan @ 17th December 2013, 11:19 PM GMTBut in this country we have religious schools that grossly misinform children, religious organisations that get tax breaks just 'cos,
Now that I can get behind faith schools and their invidious ways are as great a failure of Blairs labour as the damned wars.
Religion has a place, but its not a powerful and it certainly a tax paying one.
But I really don't know where to start. Where do our laws originate from, our charities, our very concept of charity.
Do those who burn down schools or stone women or any of those crimes, would they do it without religion.
Look at DPRK the most anti religious nation in the world. And check out how in all their recent high profile executions, the language could have been written by the Taliban.
So in this country people have a choice to be oppressed or not to be oppressed by religion, or at least the right to chose that for their children? I might disagree with the latter, but then again people do not need to be religious to intellectually or emotionally damage their children.
Are you advocating banning religion altogether or just persecuting religious people?
Quote: sootyj @ 17th December 2013, 11:30 PM GMTNow that I can get behind faith schools and their invidious ways are as great a failure of Blairs labour as the damned wars.
Religion has a place, but its not a powerful and it certainly a tax paying one.
But I really don't know where to start. Where do our laws originate from, our charities, our very concept of charity.
Do those who burn down schools or stone women or any of those crimes, would they do it without religion.
Look at DPRK the most anti religious nation in the world. And check out how in all their recent high profile executions, the language could have been written by the Taliban.
There are nutty atheists, definitely, but suggesting that atheist societies would all be like North Korea is about as sensible as saying that all religious societies are like Spain during the Inquisition.
Quote: Tursiops @ 17th December 2013, 11:33 PM GMTSo in this country people have a choice to be oppressed or not to be oppressed by religion, or at least the right to chose that for their children? I might disagree with the latter, but then again people do not need to be religious to intellectually or emotionally damage their children.
Are you advocating banning religion altogether or just persecuting religious people?
Come on, you're much smarter than that comment.
No I didn't suggest that for a moment.
Rather that the need for prurience, brutality and cruelty exists in all societies theistic and aetheistic.
But focussing on religion it just so profoundly misses the point. One persons faith has them standing in front of guns in Gaza another pointing those guns.
And on both sides are plenty of people with neither.
Quote: Harridan @ 17th December 2013, 11:37 PM GMTThere are nutty atheists, definitely, but suggesting that atheist societies would all be like North Korea is about as sensible as saying that all religious societies are like Spain during the Inquisition.
State sponsored atheism does not have a glorious history. If you are attempting to impose your beliefs upon others it seldom goes well.
Not even Marianne Faithfuk
I have to say, I often feel I'm regarded with pity by my Christian friends. Yes, they're nice people but they think they have the monopoly on righteousness. I clearly remember one
person say that the erection (no jokes Sooty!) of the mosque in Glasgow was an abomination. I try cannot understand their attitude to gay people and people of other religions. It seems as if all logic has gone out of the window.
Quote: Harridan @ 17th December 2013, 11:39 PM GMT
Okay, so what are you advocating? Evangelical atheism? State sponsored re-education?!
Quote: keewik @ 17th December 2013, 11:44 PM GMTI have to say, I often feel I'm regarded with pity by my Christian friends. Yes, they're nice people but they think they have the monopoly on righteousness. I clearly remember one
person say that the erection (no jokes Sooty!) of the mosque in Glasgow was an abomination. I try cannot understand their attitude to gay people and people of other religions. It seems as if all logic has gone out of the window.
There was a great quote on Facebook the other day,
it takes little for evil people to do evil, for good people to do evil it takes religion.
Why people of any sort of faith, base their actions on teachings on the sayings and rules of a dusty bunch of people wondering around the desert 3 millenia escapes me. How they lose the meaning behind the teachings depresses me.
How about some normal education? How about more science and less RE and more history and fewer nativity plays?
All of the conflicts that just won't ends are the ones that involve religion. You can sort out a border dispute, you can sort out sovereignty issues, but you can't sort out who is praying to the right god.
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg
Yes. I think religion should have no place in school. It should be a family thing. Ironically, my older son, who was badly bullied in school, suffered most in religious education and in social education.
So education is abnormal because of an hours worth of RE a week,that's basically comparative cultural studies
And where does religion end and culture begin. Iran and Israel don't get on, but there's a large Jewish community in Iran just being well Jews and Iranians.
France and Germany managed to fight 3 massive wars that killed millions and only stopped, when the EU was more or less formed to stop them.
Yes there should be more science in schools, but unless its changed radically since I was a lad. We learned 4-5 times as much science as RE.
Quote: keewik @ 17th December 2013, 11:57 PM GMTYes. I think religion should have no place in school. It should be a family thing. Ironically, my older son, who was badly bullied in school, suffered most in religious education and in social education.
Religion is school is such a pitiful thing it really should be put out of its misery and replaced, replaced with what.
So Burqas, Halal, Kaushrus, prayer rooms, fasting for Ramdam and Yom Kippur all going. If I see a Hare Krishna in a school can I stamp on his tambourine.
When I was in school in the dark ages, there were prayers every morning and a church service once a week. We were never taught comparative religion. But it was more that the ethos was everywhere - always assumed you were Christian and abided by the principles. My sons' experience wasn't much different in primary school, but they went through the motions in secondary with the alleged religious education which taught them piss all.