Quote: Marc P @ 9th December 2013, 12:11 AM GMTShould that be a semi-colon after mentioned or no comma?
This is where punctuation gets subjective. Maybe a colon because it explains the previous comment. Not a semi-colon, that much I'm almost sure on. 
I've been repeatedly criticised for my over-comma-ing. I'm trying to wean myself off.
I don't know for me a semi colon but not a comma. Prose wise. Dialogue neither... But it wasn't dialogue. Noe the use of the epsilon 
My take is just run it without the break as you are probably right about the semi!
Quote: Marc P @ 9th December 2013, 12:22 AM GMTI don't know for me a semi colon but not a comma. Prose wise. Dialogue neither... But it wasn't dialogue. Noe the use of the epsilon
My take is just run it without the break as you are probably right about the semi!
I think it's an afterthought: so it should be in brackets.
Maybe.
Jesus, punctuation is hard. Ten years olds have to understand semi-colons nowadays (I also did some private tutoring for a while). I didn't try to learn them until I was in my 20s, and I still need to have the rules up for reference if I'm proofreading.
(And I don't know what an epsilon is)
I get proofreading notes that are great but a lot ain't. Hyphenating everything for example is just silly. It's grammatically correct but doesn't have to be, especially with a long sequence of words.
Quote: sglen @ 9th December 2013, 12:25 AM GMTI think it's an afterthought: so it should be in brackets.
Maybe.
Jesus, punctuation is hard. Ten years olds have to understand semi-colons nowadays (I also did some private tutoring for a while). I didn't try to learn them until I was in my 20s, and I still need to have the rules up for reference if I'm proofreading.
(And I don't know what an epsilon is)
Epsilon is. ... Three dots
Quote: Marc P @ 9th December 2013, 12:30 AM GMTHyphenating everything for example is just silly. It's grammatically correct but doesn't have to be, especially with a long sequence of words.
Do you mean this kind of hyphen: tummy-rubber? (Don't know where that example came from...)
Not grammar, apparently. It's stylistic preference. You can get away with never using a hyphen (I think...).
When things are perfectly punctuated they do scan better and you can read more quickly, but very few (myself included) know how to punctuate that well. And that's what real (rather than people like me advertising on Gumtree) proofreaders are for. Unless someone rarely uses any commas or full stops we're all pretty good at gleaning the meaning from text anyway.
Also, I always thought an epsilon was called an ellipses. It's probably got loads of names, though.
Quote: sglen @ 9th December 2013, 12:05 AM GMTO I just thought you were saying technical stuff should never be mentioned, and I thought that went too far.
I love grammar games. In fact, this is an online one I did the other week. http://m.staples.ca/sbdca/en_CA/cre/programs/grammarquiz/#.UoYISjqT1kc.facebook
I thought a semicolon should be used when either a)the two phrases are contradictory (which fits here) or b)the second phrase expands upon the first, e.g. my mother is very controlling; she made my boyfriend take an aptitude test.
I am probably wrong though.
Quote: Jennie @ 9th December 2013, 12:40 AM GMTe.g. my mother is very controlling; she made my boyfriend take an aptitude test.
I think that one's a normal colon isn't it? I thought semi-colons were used either for:
1) Complex lists to split up commas (In my previous job I wrote, edited, and proofread articles; researched, commissioned and managed writers;....etc)
2) Two sentences that are grammatically correct when stood alone, but are connected in style or meaning. So you could have: Sarah was sad; Jennie was happy, which implies that the two states are connected - either I'm sad that you're happy or you're happy that I'm sad.
But to be honest, I don't think I've ever properly understood semi-colons.
Quote: sglen @ 9th December 2013, 12:40 AM GMTDo you mean this kind of hyphen: tummy-rubber? (Don't know where that example came from...)
Not grammar, apparently. It's stylistic preference. You can get away with never using a hyphen (I think...).
When things are perfectly punctuated they do scan better and you can read more quickly, but very few (myself included) know how to punctuate that well. And that's what real (rather than people like me advertising on Gumtree) proofreaders are for.
Also, I always thought an epsilon was called an ellipses. It's probably got loads of names, though.
It is, my bad lol. I've got a cold!
Don't be sad. 
I have Googled, because, what else would I do when I can't sleep in the early hours of Monday morning?
My example would be correct if I used a conjunctive adverb, apparently.
My mother is very controlling; thus, she makes my boyfriends take an aptitude test.
The other uses are as you say, as serial commas (which is STUPID. We already have commas for that) or as closely related independent clauses that are "balanced, opposing or contradictory".
In conclusion, it's STUPID.
Colons I thought were for lists, semis for connected lines of thought but a different extension within the same sentence. In dialogue it doesn't matter. Just use full stops. In prose probably too, to be honest. Flow and accessibility to meaning is the Johnny.
Quote: Marc P @ 9th December 2013, 12:57 AM GMTColons I thought were for lists, semis for connected lines of thought but a different extension within the same sentence. In dialogue it doesn't matter. Just use full stops. In prose probably too, to be honest. Flow and accessibility to meaning is the Johnny.
Agree that in dialogue it doesn't matter, apart from if you never use a comma because then it can get confusing.
My understanding of the is it a colon or a semi-colon thing is that both expand on the previous comment but one is direct and one is indirect.
So:
It's cold outside: the temperature is below freezing.
Or.
It's cold outside; there is snow on the ground.
One is actually about how cold it is (direct expansion), but the other is about something that is connected (indirect expansion).
I COULD BE WRONG! But ten year olds are tested on this shit now, so the next generation will know exactly what they're doing.
Also, I always use a full stop instead of a semi-colon because they are, indeed, completely stupid.
Yeah I agree. But fun to put one in now and again, lol. Both your examples could be served with a simple comma', :;mind!
Quote: Marc P @ 9th December 2013, 12:30 AM GMTHyphenating everything for example is just silly. It's grammatically correct but doesn't have to be, especially with a long sequence of words.
Alpha, beta, gamma, delta, epsilon. I guess Classical Greek must have slipped off the compulsory curriculum in youse Poms' schools.
The overuse of em dashes - not hyphens - instead of a pair of commas is indeed a bad habit to fall into; however, a good editor knows when to mix up the bowling (if I may employ a cricketing metaphor on this happy day for the Oz cricket team). In formal reports, when tackling long and complex sentences, a set of parentheses may be preferable to a crowd of commas.
I'm not sure this board can distinguish between an en dash, an em dash and a hyphen, so nae borr.
I agree grammar is important and as I'm not very good at it, I looked up "Over used colon" on the internet and got some very strange pictures.
Then tried finding that book Kenneth suggested "The glamour of Grammar" but Google just wanted to show me websites dedicated to glamorous grandma's.
I'm now to frightened to type in "Semi Colon" for fear of where I might end up!
This has now turned into a very good discussion on the correct use of grammar. I was actually going to make a post about it in the interests of learning from the pro's.
On a slight tangent, the thing that worries me is that if a word is used often enough by enough people it will be incorporated into the English dictionaries.
Please God lets hope that 'U' for 'You' and all the other lazy text speech does not become official English.