Quote: Marc P @ 7th December 2013, 1:34 AM GMTWe're talking here about selling stuff. But otherwise it is a whole different kettle of fish, I agree.
Yes agree this is a forum not the BBC
Ted Page 7
Quote: Marc P @ 7th December 2013, 1:31 AM GMTYou are telling people who are trying to help you if you do have a learning disability that they are wrong Carlos. I am confused by this if you do wish help? As in helping to learn I mean?
In the case of dyslexia and dyspraxia, learning these skills can be pretty difficult because the brain is basically working a different way. A certain amount can be learned, but it's a bit unfair to make people work so much harder in order to equal those without any problems in that domain.
I'm not sure it's a case of needing to learn punctuation and grammar if you suffer from these kinds of difficulties, you just accept you need to get a proofreader to take a look over your work. I'm sure Carlos would be fine with someone correcting the punctuation/grammar in his work in critique if they had the time to do it - that's a free proofread! But that's pretty time-consuming so this probably isn't expected.
Unless I've missed a post I didn't realise we were specifically talking about people with these problems, though. I thought we were talking about all writers. In which case, grammar matters and repeated, major mistakes should be mentioned in critique.
Quote: sglen @ 7th December 2013, 1:37 AM GMTIn the case of dyslexia and dyspraxia, learning these skills can be pretty difficult because the brain is basically working a different way. A certain amount can be learned, but it's a bit unfair to make people work so much harder in order to equal those without any problems in that domain.
I'm not sure it's a case of needing to learn punctuation and grammar if you suffer from these kinds of difficulties, you just accept you need to get a proofreader to take a look over your work. I'm sure Carlos would be fine with someone correcting the punctuation/grammar in his work in critique if they had the time to do it - that's a free proofread! But that's pretty time-consuming so this probably isn't expected.
Unless I've missed a post I didn't realise we were specifically talking about people with these problems, though. I thought we were talking about all writers. In which case, grammar matters and repeated, major mistakes should be mentioned in critique.
Sglen we was talking about writing you started with the learning disability thing honest, have a look
Quote: sglen @ 7th December 2013, 1:37 AM GMTIn the case of dyslexia and dyspraxia, learning these skills can be pretty difficult because the brain is basically working a different way. A certain amount can be learned, but it's a bit unfair to make people work so much harder in order to equal those without any problems in that domain.
I'm not sure it's a case of needing to learn punctuation and grammar if you suffer from these kinds of difficulties, you just accept you need to get a proofreader to take a look over your work. I'm sure Carlos would be fine with someone correcting the punctuation/grammar in his work in critique if they had the time to do it - that's a free proofread! But that's pretty time-consuming so this probably isn't expected.
Unless I've missed a post I didn't realise we were specifically talking about people with these problems, though. I thought we were talking about all writers. In which case, grammar matters and repeated, major mistakes should be mentioned in critique.
I think Teddy had a running theme re expression and spelling etc and the the script bowfins would sort out what he wrote. This is where it comes from. Just trying to add some reality for my part. I am no great speller or grammarian if that is a word but I do try and self edit as much as possible before sending in . Like I said the more work you do the less they have to do and the more they give you.
I have not said I suffer from any of them things, though I might I would never tell you
Quote: Carlos Manwelly @ 7th December 2013, 1:40 AM GMTSglen we was talking about writing you started with the learning disability thing honest, have a look
I am confused again now, do you have a learning disability or not. Or are you saying Teddy has one ?
Quote: Carlos Manwelly @ 7th December 2013, 1:40 AM GMTSglen we was talking about writing you started with the learning disability thing honest, have a look
I said if you have a learning disability it's a different matter (because it's not like you're doing it on purpose), but if you don't have a learning disability you should put the effort in. This was in response to you saying grammar doesn't matter in critique and thus shouldn't be an issue. I disagreed that grammar doesn't matter in critique.
I added the learning disability part on here because I know there are people on the forum with these difficulties. When I have pointed out problems in their work, I have been made aware that they suffer from these disabilities, so of course I'm not going to be constantly getting at them about it. This is why I explained that I make an exception for those with known difficulties.
You then accused me of saying you should mark your disability out on your profile, and then said that I thought everybody who didn't sort out their grammar and punctuation is stupid and can't write.
I said none of these things. I have never called anyone stupid on here, and neither would I in real life. That's ridiculous.
Quote: Carlos Manwelly @ 7th December 2013, 1:45 AM GMTI have not said I suffer from any of them things, though I might I would never tell you
Right...a previous post made it sound like you were saying you did, which may have been something not translating properly in text.
Quote: Marc P @ 7th December 2013, 1:46 AM GMTI am confused again now, do you have a learning disability or not. Or are you saying Teddy has one ?
I am saying before someone puts something up here they probably try their best to get all the comma and full stops right because they know that people will pull them up on it. But they want to write and show and if people put that effort into it and somebody tells them you should have used a comma then it is back to the school days where Mr Jones said you was stupid.
Quote: sglen @ 7th December 2013, 1:52 AM GMTI said if you have a learning disability it's a different matter (because it's not like you're doing it on purpose), but if you don't have a learning disability you should put the effort in. This was in response to you saying grammar doesn't matter in critique and thus shouldn't be an issue. I disagreed that grammar doesn't matter in critique.
I added the learning disability part on here because I know there are people on the forum with these difficulties. When I have pointed out problems in their work, I have been made aware that they suffer from these disabilities, so of course I'm not going to be constantly getting at them about it. This is why I explained that I make an exception for those with known difficulties.
You then accused me of saying you should mark your disability out on your profile, and then said that I thought everybody who didn't sort out their grammar and punctuation is stupid and can't write.
I said none of these things. I have never called anyone stupid on here, and neither would I in real life. That's ridiculous.
Right...a previous post made it sound like you were saying you did, which may have been something not translating properly in text.
This is a writing forum, and all I am saying is write and keep writing I don't know about personal stuff and all that, there are other forums for that lets stick to the script
We are giving writing advice is all.
Quote: Carlos Manwelly @ 7th December 2013, 1:52 AM GMTI am saying before someone puts something up here they probably try their best to get all the comma and full stops right because they know that people will pull them up on it. But they want to write and show and if people put that effort into it and somebody tells them you should have used a comma then it is back to the school days where Mr Jones said you was stupid.
If they are persistently using punctuation and grammar that is poor enough to make it difficult to read their work, and they do not have a learning disability, and they have proofread their work, then they might want to relearn punctuation and grammar.
Pointing out where one comma is missing in critique would be petty. I would only ever point something out if I had difficulty getting through the work due to poor punctuation/grammar.
I think I covered all bases there. It's not a controversial point. It really isn't.
People who don't know punctuation and grammar are not 'stupid'. They just haven't learned it. As it is an important writing skill, it should be learned. If it is something the person will have real difficulty learning - as a result of disability - then getting someone to help you proofread is a good idea.
Quote: Carlos Manwelly @ 7th December 2013, 1:56 AM GMTThis is a writing forum, and all I am saying is write and keep writing I don't know about personal stuff and all that, there are other forums for that lets stick to the script
But 'improve your punctuation and grammar' IS writing advice!
Quote: sglen @ 7th December 2013, 1:58 AM GMTIf they are persistently using punctuation and grammar that is poor enough to make it difficult to read their work, and they do not have a learning disability, and they have proofread their work, then they might want to relearn punctuation and grammar.
Pointing out where one comma is missing in critique would be petty. I would only ever point something out if I had difficulty getting through the work due to poor punctuation/grammar.
I think I covered all bases there. It's not a controversial point. It really isn't.
People who don't know punctuation and grammar are not 'stupid'. They just haven't learned it. As it is an important writing skill, it should be learned. If it is something the person will have real difficulty learning - as a result of disability - then getting someone to help you proofread is a good idea.
People who don't know punctuation and grammar are not 'stupid'. They just haven't learned it
Pity for them
What are you after do you want funny and creative?
Quote: Carlos Manwelly @ 7th December 2013, 2:01 AM GMTPeople who don't know punctuation and grammar are not 'stupid'. They just haven't learned it
Pity for them
Yes, obviously they have not had the opportunity to learn it before. I'm not saying we should 'take the piss', as you thought I was suggesting earlier. But there's nothing wrong with suggesting they self-teach. I've self-taught myself loads of things I didn't learn at school - including, would you believe it, punctuation. I had to, because I was working as a professional writer.
I suddenly don't really understand what this conversation is about anymore. It feels like lots of crossed lines because I now think we all actually agreed with each other all along...
I think you're all arguing at cross purposes somewhat.
And It's going nowhere.
Imagination will always outweigh punctuation
Quote: Carlos Manwelly @ 7th December 2013, 2:02 AM GMTWhat are you after do you want funny and creative?
Yes, obviously. I never said I didn't. I'm not sure why this is relevant to a discussion that I (perhaps mistakenly?) thought was about whether or not it is important to use correct grammar on critique.
Quote: Steve Sunshine @ 7th December 2013, 2:04 AM GMTI think you're all arguing at cross purposes somewhat.
And It's going nowhere.
Yep, I'm getting quite confused about what's going on 
Sglen out!