Well your not too far off the mourinho thing. IN kens quest to get Daniel a better deal for Daniel, he does actually have some outrageous demands, and sets things up, which display a huge level of ignorance . So would actually make more sense and add credibility, if he Wasn't a real agent. So I'd better get re writing then I suppose..
Thanks folks.
Also, I quite like the 15% of cheryl idea.
Damn you matty, I have your characters in my head all having conversations, and I can't shut them up!
There must be something in what you have written that my subconscious thinks is a definite winner...
yeah Matty, it's not necessarily a case of 'back to the drawing board' at all. You've actually given your characters a bit of banter and as Playfull rightly says you can hear them talking, which in my book is fundamentally good writing. I've read a lot of unproduced scripts/script extracts online (not necessarily on this site) and if you didn't have the names there in the dialogue you wouldn't know who was talking, in fact you'd get more banter out of 3 meth addicted yuletide logs than you would some of the characters I've seen.
If I were you I'd keep going how you were going, nail your 'three big laughs' and the plot point with the shirts. I think the pressure to make every line funny halts the writing process, for me I will try and write my twenty-five to thirty pages and then go back and add more humour in afterwards. The script extracts that you kindly read and reviewed of mine (sharks & snakes) was done in this way.
Then go back and comb through your dialogue and think about how you could make this wittier. Plus once you've written your first pilot you'll know your characters even better and that'll give you more of a chance to twist and turn your dialogue to fit them better.
Quote: playfull @ 29th November 2013, 3:17 PM GMTDamn you matty, I have your characters in my head all having conversations, and I can't shut them up!
There must be something in what you have written that my subconscious thinks is a definite winner...
Thanks playfull, Well that's something I suppose. Sounds like you may have nailed these characters in your head better than I have 
And thanks Ashley. I'm not going to go completely back to the drawing board as I have spent far to long getting the plot lines working . Hopefully I can adapt it. Really need to visit all the diologue and ensure all my characters have a definite voice. Problem is I haven't really set it anywhere yet. It's half in Essex and half in the midlands at the mo.
Anyway, all comments appreciated as always .
Quote: ashleybrownmedia @ 29th November 2013, 4:55 PM GMTyeah Matty, it's not necessarily a case of 'back to the drawing board' at all. You've actually given your characters a bit of banter and as Playfull rightly says you can hear them talking, which in my book is fundamentally good writing. I've read a lot of unproduced scripts/script extracts online (not necessarily on this site) and if you didn't have the names there in the dialogue you wouldn't know who was talking, in fact you'd get more banter out of 3 meth addicted yuletide logs than you would some of the characters I've seen.
If I were you I'd keep going how you were going, nail your 'three big laughs' and the plot point with the shirts. I think the pressure to make every line funny halts the writing process, for me I will try and write my twenty-five to thirty pages and then go back and add more humour in afterwards. The script extracts that you kindly read and reviewed of mine (sharks & snakes) was done in this way.
Then go back and comb through your dialogue and think about how you could make this wittier. Plus once you've written your first pilot you'll know your characters even better and that'll give you more of a chance to twist and turn your dialogue to fit them better.
Keep going as you are going and you will be on a roundabout. If you want to write a sitcom... Write something to laugh out loud out frequently. People who order a kebab don't want a salad sandwich with a low fat dressing.
Quote: ashleybrownmedia @ 29th November 2013, 4:55 PM GMTfor me I will try and write my twenty-five to thirty pages and then go back and add more humour in afterwards.
The problem with this is that the humour should arise naturally from the characters. I agree re making the lines themselves sharper, but I don't think you can go back and artificially create humour after your first draft. The basics have to be in there to start with.
Matty - I sort of agree with everyone else really. I think you a bit like me in some ways - an over thinker with every line analysed and re-written to within an inch of its life! I think you just need to relax a little and bring the plot out. You will get there.
Quote: Jennie @ 29th November 2013, 8:20 PM GMTThe problem with this is that the humour should arise naturally from the characters. I agree re making the lines themselves sharper, but I don't think you can go back and artificially create humour after your first draft. The basics have to be in there to start with.
Matty - I sort of agree with everyone else really. I think you a bit like me in some ways - an over thinker with every line analysed and re-written to within an inch of its life! I think you just need to relax a little and bring the plot out. You will get there.
each to their own! Although I think that only through writing your characters can you fully get to know them, and once you do their personalities will truly take over a scene and make the 'funny' dialogue come a lot easier. I think without knowing the actors who may one day play your characters it is harder to nail the dialogue at times, plus as I think I've said before what may seem damned funny (to you and your co-writer etc) on paper does not always translate well to the screen. I remember Kelsey Grammer stressing this in a couple of interviews about 'Frasier'.
Maybe try writing a few shorts with them in it - analyse their reactions to certain scenarios and crises. If you know how they'd react to zombie apocalypse you'll probably know how they'd react to someone having an affair or a divorce or something...haha. Or base them or at least elements of them on people you know. I do that...too much...
I think writing is an organic process and you have to find a way to make it work for you. For ages and ages I worried that I wasn't planning enough and that my work would be more on par if I did. So I emailed a very senior horror writer whose work I had admired for years to see how he handled planning and execution and told me he "just wrote what felt good". Well he put it a little more eloquently but you get the picture...
It flows along nicely, and the dialogue mostly sounds natural, but as others have said not enough is happening at the moment and there aren't enough big laughs. Some nice lines though.
It seems like you're still getting to know your characters. Particularly with Cheryl, I couldn't quite work out what she was supposed to be like. The Icarus reference seemed a little odd for one thing, as if another character was trying to break through.
Quote: ashleybrownmedia @ 1st December 2013, 1:28 PM GMTeach to their own! Although I think that only through writing your characters can you fully get to know them, and once you do their personalities will truly take over a scene and make the 'funny' dialogue come a lot easier. I think without knowing the actors who may one day play your characters it is harder to nail the dialogue at times, plus as I think I've said before what may seem damned funny (to you and your co-writer etc) on paper does not always translate well to the screen. I remember Kelsey Grammer stressing this in a couple of interviews about 'Frasier'.
Maybe try writing a few shorts with them in it - analyse their reactions to certain scenarios and crises. If you know how they'd react to zombie apocalypse you'll probably know how they'd react to someone having an affair or a divorce or something...haha. Or base them or at least elements of them on people you know. I do that...too much...
I think writing is an organic process and you have to find a way to make it work for you. For ages and ages I worried that I wasn't planning enough and that my work would be more on par if I did. So I emailed a very senior horror writer whose work I had admired for years to see how he handled planning and execution and told me he "just wrote what felt good". Well he put it a little more eloquently but you get the picture...
Without being an arse hopefully... If each to your own is your answer to critique why solicit it ? And the successful horror writer is simply saying write something good..
yeah he's a very good writer!
although I guess its about finding a method that works for you.
Well do that then.
Sounds simple.
anyway this is about Matty's work, hopefully he'll have a rewrite and put it up for us to see soon
It's a forum bring things in and they will be discussed in hopefully a mature manner Ashley . But I guess as someone said once each to their own. And you are right find a way that works for you to be .
Hi Marc,
just read back and I'm sorry if that came across as immature or
pedantic, definitely wasn't the case - my apologies!
Just want to say cheers to everyone who read this. What I have come to realise , largely through these comments, is that I am still getting to know my Characters and need to get the plot moving more quickly with the use of snappier, sharper lines. Think Ashley was trying to say carry on writing like this as a way of getting to know them (which is what I am doing )not just keep on writing like this because it is satisfactory. Ashley, also hear what your saying about some lines being funnier when acted. I often watch things and think, written down this wouldn't be funny, but on screen really works.
Anyway, sure you will all be thrilled to know that, work on the re write is underway.