Quote: Shandonbelle @ 24th November 2013, 1:05 PM GMTI think we all would have liked to see more of the old doctors but would probably have been a bit of a nightmare trying to weave them all in.
I thought giving them their own half show was absolutely charming.
Where was that?
I saw the McGann mini, that was excellent.
Quote: Shandonbelle @ 24th November 2013, 1:23 PM GMTWhere was that?
I saw the McGann mini, that was excellent.
Shame they didn't use him more! The horrible TV movie and the radio series aren't enough! My feeling during that mini was "YAY! McGann! Oh, he's dead 
"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03lv3mj/The_Five(ish)_Doctors_Reboot/
Though I hearing Withnail & I the whole time, which wasn't a bad thing but I felt I shouldn't be 
Quote: sootyj @ 24th November 2013, 1:27 PM GMThttp://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03lv3mj/The_Five(ish)_Doctors_Reboot/
Oh wow, thanks Sootyj, will watch later.
Quote: Kevin Murphy @ 24th November 2013, 10:02 AM GMTMy questions for Stott and/or anyone else who cares to answer:
1) What happened at Trenzalore? This ep seems to follow it chronologically, but didn't the last episode end on a cliffhanger with Clara walking into and getting lost in some kind of time maelstrom? How did she get out of that? Wasn't Trenzalore meant to be a kind of big deal? Why was it?
2) Why did Matt Smith continue to think he'd burned Gallifrey and killed all the people there? Wasn't there an episode where he met Timothy Dalton et al trapped in some kind of time prison from the Time War, much the same as the thing he sets up when he makes the planet disappear at the end of this ep?
1)Trenz is supposed to be where the Doctor finally dies. Proper dies. Clara was lost, but by the end of that ep, Matt Smith had pulled her out of it. Which was then when we saw Hurt's Doc for the first time. Smith is still supposed to ultimately end up dying at Trenz at some point.
2)Smith mentioned that (conveniently, if you like) because of all the time changing, and the Doctor's criss-crossing each other, none of them would remember what they had done, they'd still think they killed them all. So only Smith, at the point he's at by the end of the episode, would remember.
If I remember rightly, the Timelords/Dalton did what they did with the Master before the full on fall of Gallifrey, then when we see them coming back, next to Earth, this is directly before they are all killed and the war is timelocked so no one can go back into it/the thing the Doctors do to them in the 50th (because of course, as soon as they did what they did, in their time the signal would immediately start and they could follow it before they're properly killed/trapped). Dalton's lot thought they were all about to be killed and then wiped from time, which is what we are lead to believe that the Doctor did to them; in fact, it turns out here in this special, they would actually have been frozen in a moment and hidden. So basically, everything we saw in those Dalton eps, happened before both what we thought the Doctor did, and now what we discover he actually did do.
The Dalton lot, the high council, were not the same level of Timelords that we saw in the 50th, Dalton was higher placed.
The ones we see do mention the High Council being up to something but failing in a bit of throwaway dialogue.
Is that enough convoluted hand-waving for you? 
Basically, Moffat has said sod all this stuff, let's start again. Who has never been a show that stuck rigidly to trying to stick to what's been said before!
Except the Master refers to seeing an emperor dalek entering the doo dad in Arcadia.
So if this happened at the fall of Arcadia, which we saw last night.
Same time lords, same gallifrey.
Unless they avoided destruction by timelocking gallifrey, and all the doctor was timelocking them himself.
Except why would the doctor not remember this when he saw them return in the Christmas special.
More to the point why aren't the timelords arseholes last night.
Thanks Stott. Nobody hand-waves better. Except maybe Moffatt.
Consider my questions answered.
Quote: sootyj @ 24th November 2013, 2:58 PM GMTExcept the Master refers to seeing an emperor dalek entering the doo dad in Arcadia.
So if this happened at the fall of Arcadia, which we saw last night.
Same time lords, same gallifrey.
We saw Arcadia falling, but that's not where the Timelords round the desk were, they were at the capital city. Same Gallirfrey, but different level of Timelords to Dalton's Lot. Dalton is the High Council, who were proper bonkers.
Quote: sootyj @ 24th November 2013, 2:58 PM GMTMore to the point why aren't the timelords arseholes last night.
Yes, would have been good to see a bit of that.
It would have been nice to see the master at the fall of the arcadia.
I think it's one small detail in trying to tie up the loose ends, one of the charms of dr who is its not Babylon 5 or Star Trek with their obsessive continuity.
Quote: sootyj @ 24th November 2013, 3:07 PM GMTIt would have been nice to see the master at the fall of the arcadia.
I think it's one small detail in trying to tie up the loose ends, one of the charms of dr who is its not Babylon 5 or Star Trek with their obsessive continuity.
Yeah; one good thing is that Moffat has left the way open for The Master to more easily return, too. He's no longer trapped taken out of time for good.
Quote: sootyj @ 24th November 2013, 3:07 PM GMTIt would have been nice to see the master at the fall of the arcadia.
I think it's one small detail in trying to tie up the loose ends, one of the charms of dr who is its not Babylon 5 or Star Trek with their obsessive continuity.
Continuity is important, though. Especially in sci-fi where the rules about what can and cannot happen are not innately understood by the audience.
Quote: Harridan @ 24th November 2013, 3:18 PM GMTContinuity is important, though. Especially in sci-fi where the rules about what can and cannot happen are not innately understood by the audience.
Sure, but Doctor Who is and always will be a bit all over the place. Sort of part of its charm I suppose. And fans love trying to pull it all together and make it make some sort of sense!
I think scifi shows have always had to work out where to draw the line.
Personally I'm glad they sacrificed continuity for story telling.
