Spoiling your ballot paper seems a reasonable way of ensuring that when you genuinely feel that the country will be governed in a way that you feel is inadequate regardless of who you vote for, it doesn't get confused with not getting off your arse. Voter apathy is a main talking point at every election and while politicians may not give a damn, despite lip-service paid to democracy or principles rather than what seems to largely be a career route for mostly well-off white men, at least you can say you stated an opinion, even if it is in a redundant manner. There should, as other posters mentioned, be a none of the above option. There should also be obligatory literature in multiple accessible formats stating clearly where each party/candidate stands and compares on a variety of matters from an unbiased body, and a legally binding agreement that if, excepting unforeseen circumstances, you don't deliver on what you promised, you're out of office. No-one else gets to say they'll do a job and then keep it when it turns out they can't/won't do what they were employed to do.
And no, the answer isn't to vote another way at the next election, because the type of people who are attracted to power are the type of people who will see what they can get away with even if they express dismay and disgust whilst someone else is doing it; even those who start off with good intentions get dragged into the politics of politics- and four years is too long to let lying liars f**k up real people's lives.
But then if we want decent representation, we as a country have to have a word with ourselves about the media we willingly consume. If you can't be a successful politician without the backing of news outlets who make money from distorting and downright lying about the policies and impacts of such of those on both the left and the right, then it's no surprise that it seems to many that there just aren't honest politicians around. It's Darwinism in action, except it's making us weaker.
Robert Webb versus Russell Brand Page 12
Quote: AJGO @ 5th November 2013, 9:28 PM GMTThere should be ... a legally binding agreement that if, excepting unforeseen circumstances, you don't deliver on what you promised, you're out of office.
The trouble with this is it would only result in making election campaigns even more vague and wishy-washy than they already are, thus fuelling further disengagement on the grounds that politicians aren't taking a clear stance on anything, and giving them even more wiggle room once they are in office.
It's a no-win situation. Westminster needs cultural reform so that MPs are less bound to strict party lines all the time, but equally the public need to understand that electoral 'promises' always come with massive caveats of "what is politically possible when the time actually comes", "what is affordable", "what proves to not be against some other greater public interest", etc.
Quote: Hannah G @ 5th November 2013, 5:24 PM GMTRussell being interviewed by Jeremy Paxman:
When did they start swearing on the news??
Bob Geldof - Live Aid?
Or arguably Kenneth Tynan.
But only to readers of The Observer.
Unfortunately disenchantment with the election process and politicians seemingly empty flannel filled promises has done untold damage to peoples willingness to engage with politics...so it's not surprising that people spoil votes, don't bother, vote for Mr Rasher, whatever.
I do vote, if only because it seems like a waste not to, and with a belief that you've got to be on board on some level, if not directly involved in politics and decision making, at least you are doing the bare minimum and using what is our democratic right.
I wish Brand would do more than just wax lyrical, now that he's got a forum perhaps he could put all that fiery enthusiasm to use, or will he just jump to the next shiny thing that takes his fancy? hmmm.
Quote: Shandonbelle @ 5th November 2013, 11:46 PM GMTUnfortunately disenchantment with the election process and politicians seemingly empty flannel filled promises has done untold damage to peoples willingness to engage with politics...so it's not surprising that people spoil votes, don't bother, vote for Mr Rasher, whatever.
I do vote, if only because it seems like a waste not to, and with a belief that you've got to be on board on some level, if not directly involved in politics and decision making, at least you are doing the bare minimum and using what is our democratic right.I wish Brand would do more than just wax lyrical, now that he's got a forum perhaps he could put all that fiery enthusiasm to use, or will he just jump to the next shiny thing that takes his fancy? hmmm.
I see him riding on a chariot through Britain, locks flying in the breeze, and followed by the masses like Gump when he went running.
There probably wouldn't be a news black out which is what the BBC is close to today. But it is damned if it reports news or doesn't.
Quote: sglen @ 5th November 2013, 6:02 PM GMTSort of is, in a way. Lefties in particular, which I count myself as, tend to moan that politics is 'populist', then say they're going to spoil their vote because they're not being represented by government. The whole point of the 'populist' argument is 'they're just saying that to get more votes' - well, yeah, and if you bothered to vote they'd be more likely to say things you like too!
Well it's not. Do you have the government you deserve? Do the Russians. I don't know but the statement was that people get the government they deserve. Nothing to do with voting or not. Or what kind of people.
Quote: Marc P @ 6th November 2013, 8:05 AM GMTWell it's not. Do you have the government you deserve? Do the Russians. I don't know but the statement was that people get the government they deserve. Nothing to do with voting or not. Or what kind of people.
Countries with a higher rate of political corruption and definitely those without democracy obviously don't get the government they deserve. And we don't in the complete sense of the word 'deserve', but the actions of our government is partly the fault of the nation seeing as parties generally do try to please at least a section of it (their voters).
Quote: Horseradish @ 5th November 2013, 11:19 PM GMTBob Geldof - Live Aid?
Or arguably Kenneth Tynan.
But only to readers of The Observer.
I believe lord Winston Churchill called Hitler a f**king, c**t stick and a shit sack on workers playtime
The next day we took tobruk
Quote: sootyj @ 6th November 2013, 8:14 AM GMTI believe lord Winston Churchill called Hitler a f**king, c**t stick and a shit sack on workers playtime
The next day we took tobruk
Interesting.
He also had a relationship with Violet Elizabeth Bott who was only 17 when war broke out. Later she married one of the Ovalteenies. Now 91, she is still living in an old converted nissen hut just north of Frinton. The one in which she launched the British fluxus movement in the mid 1960s.
So if everyone votes none of the above, then what? Another election, with all the chaos and expense that would require?
Or the queen appoints a sherrif to be in charge and we all hide in the forest with bows and arrows.
If you don't want to vote, don't no one's forcing you to.
If you want to complain, write to your MP, the chair of your local party of whiche ever party, join an effective protest party, or join the one you think is least misguided. Don't just moan ineffectually, albeit that is your right, a right a great many people sacrificed a very great deal for you to be able to do.
Quote: sootyj @ 6th November 2013, 11:17 AM GMTSo if everyone votes none of the above, then what? Another election, with all the chaos and expense that would require?
Or the queen appoints a sherrif to be in charge and we all hide in the forest with bows and arrows.
If you don't want to vote, don't no one's forcing you to.
If you want to complain, write to your MP, the chair of your local party of whiche ever party, join an effective protest party, or join the one you think is least misguided. Don't just moan ineffectually, albeit that is your right, a right a great many people sacrificed a very great deal for you to be able to do.
I do vote. I personally think it's disgraceful as a human and as a woman not to. But I sympathise with those who feel it's pointless. I agree with you about taking any small action, but I find it depressing and tiring that we have to battle against people saying they're the best choice to run our particular collective of humans then filling their pockets and making decisions that are unhelpful at best and inhumane often. I'm aware it's not the way it works, but I don't think that the concept of privileged people doing their jobs in a reasonably honest and useful way should be that much of a utopian fantasy.
The other thing to remember is that governments don't run countries. Corporations do. Multi national corporations. And women of course!
Quote: AJGO @ 6th November 2013, 11:30 AM GMTI do vote. I personally think it's disgraceful as a human and as a woman not to. But I sympathise with those who feel it's pointless. I agree with you about taking any small action, but I find it depressing and tiring that we have to battle against people saying they're the best choice to run our particular collective of humans then filling their pockets and making decisions that are unhelpful at best and inhumane often. I'm aware it's not the way it works, but I don't think that the concept of privileged people doing their jobs in a reasonably honest and useful way should be that much of a utopian fantasy.
The fact they have to ask for our approval is wonderful.
And not all MPs are greedy, selfish, crooks, really they're not. Some are and that is a shame and some do despicable things.
But most don't.
Quote: sootyj @ 6th November 2013, 11:36 AM GMTAnd not all MPs are greedy, selfish, crooks
I'm not!
My friend Sardo was inspired by this debate to pen this
http://www.londoncomedywriters.com/blog/Dr_Sardonicus/cut-your-nose-off-to-spite-labours-face/
dunno why he bothers, not like anyone reads what the windy bugger has to say.