Quote: Jennie @ August 16 2013, 10:22 PM BSTGod no. I'd leave the country on the next plane.
Juries get it right..most of the time. But what if they got it wrong?
Derek Bentley?
I read the news today oh boy! Page 1,266
Quote: Oldrocker @ August 16 2013, 10:26 PM BSTDerek Bentley?
Was that the murder of the police officer? I think that's a bit different - that was about the law of joint enterprise.
Bentley said something like "get him" whilst his mate was killing the policeman. That probably is sufficient assistance and encouragement to render Bentley also guilty in law of murder.
I was thinking of James Hanratty and the like.
"Let him have it."
Bentley was learning disabled and hung because his acomplice was too young to swing.
Bascially prior to 1965 if a police man or bystander was killed or someone was killed whilst you commited a crime.
Then someone was going to hang, it's why Ruth Ellis died as well (not because of the guy she killed, but she hit a bystander who survived)
Some would argue, the sure knowledge that if you as a criminal killed someone then in about a month you'd be dead.
Ensured the UK had enviably low rates for armed crime and murder.
Certainly there was a spike after hanging was repealed.
Poor Derek though probably was hanged as part of a cover up. The murdered police officer was almost certainly shot by inexperienced police officers using guns they had never trained with.
Quote: sootyj @ August 16 2013, 11:25 PM BSTPoor Derek though probably was hanged as part of a cover up. The murdered police officer was almost certainly shot by inexperienced police officers using guns they had never trained with.
I didn't know that. That is terrible. 
It's why I get so so angry when people advocate bringing back to the death penalty. Do you trust our government to administer it responsibly? Well, do you?
Quite a few mates have gone out to the deep south of America to work on death row cases. It's something I've always been meaning to do, but never found the time.
Because the quality of defence representation in America is shit. Defence attorneys are appointed by the state. The same state that is prosecuting you and wants to kill you on conviction.
Of course, Grayling would like to do the same thing here. He'll probably get to do it, because the general public don't seem to understand why we need a strong judiciary and strong, independent lawyers.
Ian Brady wanted to be hung
Instead he's had to rot in prisons and hospitals with tubes up his nose for DECADES
Brilliant!
Much better
Here's to another twenty years of misery, ya c**t
Well the thing is what happened to Derek was so insanely unfair it kinda wrecked the death sentence in the UK.
I remember reading about how the last man to hang in Bristol prison was allowed a lie in, because its not a nice thing to be woken up for.
The US innocence project is quite chilling. For a $500 DNA test they're whipping people off death row at a rate.
There's an old saying, for every innocent man in prison, a guilty ones gone free.
Indeed. "Better that ten guilty ones escape than one innocent suffer".
I once had a client who I thought was innocent. He was convicted and sent to prison. His wife left him, he lost his job, his friends. His kids wanted nothing to do with him.
I didn't sleep for a month. I still think about him a lot.
Quote: lofthouse @ August 16 2013, 11:31 PM BSTIan Brady wanted to be hung
Instead he's had to rot in prisons and hospitals with tubes up his nose for DECADES
Brilliant!
Much better
Here's to another twenty years of misery, ya c**t
He says that knowing it won't happen.
I'd like to have a fist fight with Vladmire Putin, I can say that it aint gonna happen.
However humane the state made it, the 3 weeks leading upto the execution was by all accounts a living hell.
Quote: Jennie @ August 16 2013, 11:35 PM BSTIndeed. "Better that ten guilty ones escape than one innocent suffer".
I once had a client who I thought was innocent. He was convicted and sent to prison. His wife left him, he lost his job, his friends. His kids wanted nothing to do with him.
I didn't sleep for a month. I still think about him a lot.
I work in care/social services and the limited experience I have of the criminal justice system scares me alot.
If you can get a copy of this I really recommend it.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dad-Help-Me-Please-Bentley/dp/0863696996
I recently re-read it after a gap of forty years or so.
It contains a very detailed analysis of the gunshots fired during the incident.
I've seen a film about that case, with Christopher Eccleston.
Incredibly chilling and guaranteed to make anyone against the death penalty.
Let Him Have It. Good film.
Bentley was in my borough. I have always been against the death penalty but............
(deep breath)
...........when you have someone who beheads another in Woolwich, is filmed with the lethal weapon, is covered in blood, is saying that he did it, he did it, he did it.
It becomes apparent that there are situations where this is no possible doubt.
And then the only barrier between the current situation and the restoration of the death penalty is the concept that the state should not sink to the same level.
Except it wouldn't do. One is unprovoked murder. The other is a response.
No, I'm not in favour now. I would abstain in any referendum on what is an appropriate response to an unprovoked beheading in daylight on London streets. But I could no longer oppose restoration outright.
Yes, those cases mean the person should be put in jail until he dies.
Still isn't a reason to support the death penalty. Just proper life sentences.
The execution of Bentley also features in a superb film starring Timothy Spall, Pierrepoint.
Magnificent performance from Spall and a film I would recommend anyone to watch.
Quote: Horseradish @ August 17 2013, 12:02 AM BSTB
And then the only barrier between the current situation and the restoration of the death penalty is the concept that the state should not sink to the same level.
Except it wouldn't do. One is unprovoked murder. The other is a response.
Nope - one is unprovoked murder. The other is provoked murder. Still murder.
The death penalty is not about justice. It is about vengeance. It destroys any notion of rehabilitation.
The Woolwich murderers had no respect for the sanctity of human life. But we are not them. We should respect human life.